Arm China Has Gone Rogue • Hacker News Board

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#551

Post by baybal2 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:04 AM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #170

reaperducer wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allen Wu having the seal For those of us not familiar with Chinese business practices, is this an actual seal? Like someone would use to frank documents, or squish into hot wax to seal documents? Or is it a symbolic seal, like a legal document, or something else?

It's a thing in the US too. Just formed a C-Corp and power to create a seal that serves as the company's official signature is one of the parts that needs to be figured out in bylaws. You can specify that the current Chairman or CEO's signature counts as a seal, but you legally need some seal entity so that .gov knows what's legally binding. We elected to have an actual seal just for the kitsch value of it. Why make…

That's the problem with physical seal...

A chairmanner can be declared by the board, and the power of his seal goes with that automatically.

Say, somebody steals a seal now...

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#552

Post by coldacid » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:09 AM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #551

monocasa wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a thing in the US too. Just formed a C-Corp and power to create a seal that serves as the company's official signature is one of the parts that needs to be figured out in bylaws. You can specify that the current Chairman or CEO's signature counts as a seal, but you legally need some seal entity so that .gov knows what's legally binding. We elected to have an actual seal just for the kitsch value of it. Why make…

That's the problem with physical seal... A chairmanner can be declared by the board, and the power of his seal goes with that automatically. Say, somebody steals a seal now...

Sensible businesses usually keep the seal locked up somewhere in the head office, probably with a backup in a safety deposit box at their bank. They certainly don't let the CEO take it home with them.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#553

Post by bllguo » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #526

refenestrator wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American foreign policy was wrong-headed because it envisioned China happily assimilating into a world order which recognized US as rightful hegemon of all oceans and most land. This was more of an unspoken assumption, the spoken version had all the stuff you said. Why would they accept that? There's a billion and a half of them and they work harder. They're going to have regional hegemony over their area as a matter…

It was wrong headed because it gave a lifeline to an immoral authoritarian government. Without being allowed to participate in the WTO and the west's world order CCP would have collapsed by the end of the 90s. Once a democratic rule of law government took over then they could have become just as prosperous but without the evil power structure that keeps is here to stay. It would be more like Taiwan or South Korea or…

Their way is _working_. No, Taiwan and South Korea and Hong Kong are not proof that democratic methods work. Calling Hong Kong under Britain democratic is wildly disingenuous. Taiwan and South Korea are only _very_ recently democratic. Arguably the bulk of their ascendance occurred under authoritarian rule.

You also don't get to point only at successes. They looked at Singapore and sought to emulate that model, who are you to dictate that this is not acceptable? They looked at India and saw failure, what's your rebuttal?

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#554

Post by coldacid » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

jacknews wrote: post #515

barrkel wrote: post #5

This is the standard Chinese operating model, as I understand it. Accept foreign subsidiary investment on condition of 51% Chinese ownership, transfer the technology, then turn around and compete with the parent. It was a similar story with maglev trains.

Exactly. Why are companies and their governments still falling for it? Contrast with how Chinese companies operate in the west, essentially imposing a system of apartheid between Chinese bosses and western workers.

Because C-level execs and corporate directors think only as far as the next quarterly report and don't consider the big picture.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#555

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #526

refenestrator wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American foreign policy was wrong-headed because it envisioned China happily assimilating into a world order which recognized US as rightful hegemon of all oceans and most land. This was more of an unspoken assumption, the spoken version had all the stuff you said. Why would they accept that? There's a billion and a half of them and they work harder. They're going to have regional hegemony over their area as a matter…

It was wrong headed because it gave a lifeline to an immoral authoritarian government. Without being allowed to participate in the WTO and the west's world order CCP would have collapsed by the end of the 90s. Once a democratic rule of law government took over then they could have become just as prosperous but without the evil power structure that keeps is here to stay. It would be more like Taiwan or South Korea or…

[deleted]

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#556

Post by coldacid » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:18 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #545

spfzero wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would expect to remain an "ally" in China's eyes after their usefulness was exhausted? That's beyond wishful thinking. It is ascribing a magical western "loyalty" value that simply doesn't exist in business anywhere, even in the west. Chinese companies no doubt believe they can do everything a western company can do, and they're right, for practical purposes. What do they need help with once they have the trade s…

Maybe it's not "long" then, but short. Appease China to keep the money flowing, and ignore future consequences?

That's exactly what got us into this situation. Save a few bucks by appeasing the communists, and before you know it, they own you.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#557

Post by Taniwha » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:24 AM UTC

MangoCoffee wrote: post #348

Softbank paid $31 billion for ARM and Chinese investors get ARM China for $775 million.

Yes but what Softbank essentially bought was ARM's relationship with its captive western downstream market, at the time the Chinese downstream market was essentially 0 - $775m for that at the time probably seemed like a great deal for Softbank at the time .....

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#558

Post by pphysch » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

woofie11 wrote: post #390

pphysch wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ray Dalio is actually part of the minority of the Western FIRE sector that is not "fucked", precisely because Bridgewater has a strong position in China. This is what "fucked" looks like: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=GoIg

Can you interpret this graph for those of us who don't understand the point? Serious question.

The interest rate is officially ~zero and effectively negative due to consistent QE (over $120,000,000,000 printed and given to banks every month). The Fed is practically paying the global financial system (in USD) to keep using USD.

There will be a massive reckoning as the global economy refuses to get ripped off by the Fed's relentless money printing. Yet the Fed is extremely hesitant to taper its QE policy, because that will detonate the domestic stock market.

It is not an exaggeration to suggest we are literally in the final years/months of the neoliberal economic order.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#559

Post by mbrodersen » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:31 AM UTC

jbhouse wrote: post #146

It's almost like China wants to make sure nobody ever lets them near useful IP again. This just seems counterproductive for them in the long run, though if you understand geopolitics better than I do, please help my understand how this is a good long-term strategy for China

CEO’s will always be happy to sacrifice the long term for short term bonuses. Don’t underestimate the power of greed.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#560

Post by mbrodersen » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:37 AM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #103

nickff wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make the implicit assumption that it is possible to maintain an advantage in the market after destroying ongoing business relationships/expectations (as ARM China appears to have done). I think you may be overestimating the importance of 'apparent market power', and underestimating the value of consistency and adaptability. Highly centralized (command & control) and mercantilist systems tend to do well in the sho…

You can steal your way to the top. It worked for the greeks. It worked for the mongols. Arguably it worked for the spanish and british. I dont see the free market holding back authoritarian takeovers. At some point the west will wake up but when they do, is it too late?

And it worked and is working for the US.