Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Arm China Has Gone Rogue

semianalysis.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 686 posts

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#301

Post by nosianu »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #89
monocasa wrote: post #33

I'm not sure what anyone expected when we cut China off of chip IP. We did the same thing in the US, we had a policy of just straight up encouraging people to memorize patents before they immigrated over, and paying for their family to immigrate with them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater

Are there more examples of this? I want to cite them every time people defend intellectual property.

For my country (Germany), you just have to look up the history of "Made in Germany". Which Britain introduced to defend against cheap knock-off products made in Germany, which was learning from (i.e. "stealing" in today's terms) by copying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany#History

> The label was originally introduced in Britain by the Merchandise Marks Act 1887, to mark foreign produce more obviously, as foreign manufactures had been falsely marking inferior goods with the marks of renowned British manufacturing companies and importing them into the United Kingdom. Most of these were found to be originating from Germany, whose government had introduced a protectionist policy to legally prohibit the import of goods in order to build up domestic industry

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#302

Post by InfiniteRand »

reaperducer wrote: post #130
klelatti wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that it's not the 51% (and I think some of the 51% may be held by non Chinese investors) that has been key but rather Allen Wu having the seal - so even without control of the board he's still been able to get control of the company.

Allen Wu having the seal For those of us not familiar with Chinese business practices, is this an actual seal? Like someone would use to frank documents, or squish into hot wax to seal documents? Or is it a symbolic seal, like a legal document, or something else?

I don't quite understand this either, isn't this something where you could make a new seal with the same design? Does the original seal have something specific that's not supposed to be copied? Or is this like the copyright ownership of the company's seal?

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#303

Post by andrey_utkin »

webmaven wrote: post #255
denverkarma wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that they are more than capable of innovation and shrewd business is the entire reason that casually stealing whatever they want on top of things is problematic.

> The fact that they are more than capable of innovation and shrewd business is the entire reason that casually stealing whatever they want on top of things is problematic. Hardly casual. The theft is thoughtful, deliberate, careful, and strategic.

Maybe the West woruld come to realization that they could abolish paw protections of trade secrets and patents, and not lose much, but boost local innovation?

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#304

Post by [deleted] »

Phileosopher wrote: post #287

This is difficult to parse in my Western mind. I've grown up with a constant understanding of implicit liberties, so much so that I have the freedom to openly _discuss_ my general distrust of the government. The events that float by in HN are outliers: threats of more risk, but statistically unusual enough that they're stories of interest. This means that living and acting in a country where your very _thoughts_ are…

[deleted]

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#305

Post by sennight »

webmaven wrote: post #279
sennight wrote: post #122

I remember when bitcoin miners were transitioning from FPGA to ASIC... I nearly threw out my back from laughter when the Chinese deceitfully copied the masks with abandon, while also delaying fulfillment with longer and longer burn in tests.

> [...] delaying fulfillment with longer and longer burn in tests. Ha! "Burn in tests" indeed, that is pretty funny.

Funnier still is the fact that the network's aggregate hashing power can easily be calculated by anyone logging the rate and difficulty of solved blocks, and that anyone would still bother trying to lie. But then the whole Craig Wright debacle hadn't yet gone down... so I guess they might have been visionaries when it came to leveraging the power of self-delusion to defeat cryptographic guarantees.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#306

Post by nosianu »

reaperducer wrote: post #145
monocasa wrote: post #33

I'm not sure what anyone expected when we cut China off of chip IP. We did the same thing in the US, we had a policy of just straight up encouraging people to memorize patents before they immigrated over, and paying for their family to immigrate with them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater

So, you contend that because the United States did something questionable 200 years ago, it's OK for China to do it in modern times. Got it.

Alternative hypothesis:

What the US - and others, see my related comment about my own country (Germany) in this sub-thread - was not "questionable" at all. Instead, the way we defend "IP" today is what is questionable.

You won't find the equivalent of a law of physics to support either hypothesis, in the end those are different paths for society to take and it's a choice. I'M presupposing here that there is no end goal for humanity, so there is no obvious way to weigh the different outcomes by some higher level objective measure.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#307

Post by christkv »

tablespoon wrote: post #280
tomp wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about that? It's the norm in Europe. E.g. you can't work for UK security services (MI5, MI6) unless one of your parents was also British, you lived in the UK for a while and you might be required to give up dual citizenship.

> Are you sure about that? It's the norm in Europe. E.g. you can't work for UK security services (MI5, MI6) unless one of your parents was also British, you lived in the UK for a while and you might be required to give up dual citizenship. I think it's actually similar for US security clearances, though not explicitly codified like that. IIRC, if you're a dual citizen, you have to renounce the non-American one. Appar…

You can get approved for secret clearance if you are a citizen of a NATO ally. I guess because you can be vetted. Higher than that I think would be hard.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#308

Post by wonnage »

cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

The McCarthyism will continue until capitalism improves

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#309

Post by colechristensen »

cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

We buy peace with China by maintaining strong economic codependence. There is a huge cost, but not necessarily one not worth paying.

Economic isolation would mean war.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#310

Post by ggm »

wonnage wrote: post #308
cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

The McCarthyism will continue until capitalism improves

An underrated comment I intend stealing and reusing without attribution. Flogging/morale riff, well done.
Post reply on HN