Arm China Has Gone Rogue • Hacker News Board

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#131

Post by benreesman » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

The PRC isn’t fucking around. They’re playing for the whole show and the West is bringing a significantly weaker game than it did against a significantly dumber geopolitical adversary last time.

Being England or whatever isn’t the end of the world, there is life after global hegemony, but e.g. the USA should be realistic about the fact that e.g. shit like a legislature whose job is to get nothing done isn’t how you win in full-contact sports.

For all its innumerable faults, flaws, and outright human rights violations: the West of the latter 20th century seemed like a plausible v0.0.1 of some future, hypothetical, benevolent society. Sucked ass if you were a minority but there was movement on that, real wages seemed to be trending ok, technological innovation was on point. It looked to be going somewhere.

I’m not sure when it all went sideways, but the PRC is looking more than happy to design the future, and it seems unclear at best if that would be a net win in the “get to Star Trek as fast as possible” game.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#132

Post by dylan522p » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

jhgb wrote: post #106

dylan522p wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chips themselves can be sold, yes. The IP cannot be licensed to non Chinese based semi firms.

"Chips themselves can be sold, yes" How would even that be possible? Surely ARM's laywers are not interested in ripoff products being sold in the West.

Arm does not manufacture chips. They license IP for per chip or blanket fees. The model of many of these licenses is irrevocable. I've seen a couple different Arm licensing contracts and they're all very different so hard to make blanket statements. The Chinese entity has the right to license to all Chinese semiconductor firms who have the right to sell their chips.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#133

Post by DangitBobby » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

jlduan wrote: post #116

barrkel wrote: post #5

This is the standard Chinese operating model, as I understand it. Accept foreign subsidiary investment on condition of 51% Chinese ownership, transfer the technology, then turn around and compete with the parent. It was a similar story with maglev trains.

the rogue ceo allen wu is american.

And?

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#134

Post by bserge » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

Guess it's the American Dream of the rich, "anyone can make it (on the Chinese 1.3 billion people market)".

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#135

Post by LatteLazy » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

Look at everything China have done over the last 10 years. And we in the west have done nothing. One has to wonder if there is anything the CCP even could do to be taken seriously as a threat. I had hoped that with Trump out and Brexit at least quite we might see some action. I was wrong.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#136

Post by bserge » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

sennight wrote: post #122

I remember when bitcoin miners were transitioning from FPGA to ASIC... I nearly threw out my back from laughter when the Chinese deceitfully copied the masks with abandon, while also delaying fulfillment with longer and longer burn in tests.

I don't get it, all current ASIC miners are from China.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#137

Post by chrischen » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

“In the new joint venture, Arm Holdings, the SoftBank subsidiary sold a 51% stake of the company to a consortium of Chinese investors for paltry $775M. This venture has the exclusive right to license Arm’s IP within China. Within 2 years, the venture went rogue. Recently, they gave a presentation to the industry about rebranding, developing their own IP, and striking their own independently operated path.”

It sounds like what really happened is that Softbank and Chinese investors initially voted to oust Allen Wu, but he held onto something called a seal that gave him legal control of the company still. Retrieving the seal would have taken additional lawsuits and cooperation of Chinese courts, but they did not do this because the Chinese investors were not onboard with it.

Apart from Allen Wu holding onto the seal the rest is just cutthroat capitalism.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#138

Post by xadhominemx » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #75

denverkarma wrote: post #64

So when is the western world going to wake up and realize that China is a cutthroat competitor that does not respect western law or traditions, cannot be trusted, and intends to dominate the world? This seems especially troubling for the tech world as IP is easily copied and the only thing that really protects it is the legal system, which China has shown over and over they don't care about.

As soon as we stop banning people from saying that.

Who is banning people for saying China doesn’t respect western IP? Please show me a single example.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#139

Post by matthewdgreen » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

random314 wrote: post #111

matthewdgreen wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been down this road with the Soviet Union during portions of the cold war, when folks in the West thought that high Soviet GDP catch-up growth would translate into sustained non-catch-up growth and meant non-authoritarian governments were doomed. It didn't work out that way. Democracy isn't assured, we could easily vote it away in the West. But there is definitely a pattern whereby enormous cutting-edge economi…

Soviet Russia had a much smaller population and market size than China.

And China has its own problems, including hugely problematic demographics and an export-fueled economy that is still highly dependent on trade with the West.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#140

Post by dylan522p » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

xmly wrote: post #102

I wish the author can learn some Chinese before writing this article. And the related Chinese news was already there last year. The thing is the pure ARM internal political conflicts. ARM China CEO WU, a US citizen, claimed that he reported few high-level managers' corruptions and then he got fired by the ARM Softbank. ARM Softbank united with all board directors, including all Chinese investors, to fire Wu. But when…

The last part of the article was not here last year. The last part and images are from an event they held recently. Notice the

"Before we get to the event they held and the significance of it, let’s do a recap."

He refuses to leave and he has the stamp. The 7-1 vote was even mentioned.

I would love if you could find those images from the event last year. You would need a time machine for that.