Arm China Has Gone Rogue • Hacker News Board

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#101

Post by jimworm » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #77

denverkarma wrote: post #64

So when is the western world going to wake up and realize that China is a cutthroat competitor that does not respect western law or traditions, cannot be trusted, and intends to dominate the world? This seems especially troubling for the tech world as IP is easily copied and the only thing that really protects it is the legal system, which China has shown over and over they don't care about.

You make the implicit assumption that it is possible to maintain an advantage in the market after destroying ongoing business relationships/expectations (as ARM China appears to have done). I think you may be overestimating the importance of 'apparent market power', and underestimating the value of consistency and adaptability. Highly centralized (command & control) and mercantilist systems tend to do well in the sho…

Short term weaknesses can make long term advantages irrelevant. Actually it's the primary force that shapes history.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#102

Post by xmly » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

I wish the author can learn some Chinese before writing this article. And the related Chinese news was already there last year.

The thing is the pure ARM internal political conflicts.

ARM China CEO WU, a US citizen, claimed that he reported few high-level managers' corruptions and then he got fired by the ARM Softbank. ARM Softbank united with all board directors, including all Chinese investors, to fire Wu.

But when Wu franchised ARM China, he signed a voting agreement with large shareholders to make sure he can not be fired for no reasons. So he claimed the board voting was illegal and Chinese shareholder violated the voting agreement. So even Chinese shareholders want him gone, but he refused to leave.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#103

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #77

denverkarma wrote: post #64

So when is the western world going to wake up and realize that China is a cutthroat competitor that does not respect western law or traditions, cannot be trusted, and intends to dominate the world? This seems especially troubling for the tech world as IP is easily copied and the only thing that really protects it is the legal system, which China has shown over and over they don't care about.

You make the implicit assumption that it is possible to maintain an advantage in the market after destroying ongoing business relationships/expectations (as ARM China appears to have done). I think you may be overestimating the importance of 'apparent market power', and underestimating the value of consistency and adaptability. Highly centralized (command & control) and mercantilist systems tend to do well in the sho…

You can steal your way to the top.

It worked for the greeks. It worked for the mongols. Arguably it worked for the spanish and british.

I dont see the free market holding back authoritarian takeovers. At some point the west will wake up but when they do, is it too late?

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#104

Post by ticviking » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:29 PM UTC

comrade-hn wrote: post #38

zoomablemind wrote: post #29

Are there examples of mainland-grown IP/technology breakthroughs that resulted from such "transfers"? It seems so far that this does enable China to further catch up and massively expand the use of the captured technology, but are there instances of them qualitatively surpassing it? I'm sure China has enough resources for advancements beyond replication, as much as it's capable of showcasing something to the rest of…

Some of the most competitive products in some categories are from China, for example in drones. It's only a matter of time until they work their way up the chain. Remember the Tim Cook quote how it's difficult to fill a room with machinists in US, while in China you can fill 3 football fields with them.

Depends on the region. In the Midwest and southeast most towns have several “jobshops” that keep the local industry running.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#105

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:31 PM UTC

xmly wrote: post #102

I wish the author can learn some Chinese before writing this article. And the related Chinese news was already there last year. The thing is the pure ARM internal political conflicts. ARM China CEO WU, a US citizen, claimed that he reported few high-level managers' corruptions and then he got fired by the ARM Softbank. ARM Softbank united with all board directors, including all Chinese investors, to fire Wu. But when…

Sources? Those are extraordinary claims.

In english please

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#106

Post by jhgb » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:31 PM UTC

dylan522p wrote: post #43

monocasa wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can put your hands on Zhaoxin boards in the west despite those also ostensibly being China only as well. And software bifurcation is the real problem, and would be handled at layer not exclusive to China.

Chips themselves can be sold, yes. The IP cannot be licensed to non Chinese based semi firms.

"Chips themselves can be sold, yes"

How would even that be possible? Surely ARM's laywers are not interested in ripoff products being sold in the West.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#107

Post by post_break » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #98

denverkarma wrote: post #64

So when is the western world going to wake up and realize that China is a cutthroat competitor that does not respect western law or traditions, cannot be trusted, and intends to dominate the world? This seems especially troubling for the tech world as IP is easily copied and the only thing that really protects it is the legal system, which China has shown over and over they don't care about.

Western businesses will never care. They don't care that the chinese destroy the planet. They don't care that the chinese manipulate the quality of the products they manufacture on their behalf. They don't care that the chinese sell counterfeits at huge markups in markets developed countries couldn't care less about. The only thing they care about is money. They'll never stop doing business with China until it stops…

We would sell the moon and the planet if it meant profit.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#108

Post by hncurious » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

russellbeattie wrote: post #36

ldiracdelta wrote: post #8

Perhaps, as Scott Adams has said, "It is not safe to do business in China."

[flagged]

The author of Dilbert, a comic popular because of its insight, has zero knowledge or insight? Good luck defending that assertion, let alone the rest of your claim.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#109

Post by angio » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #89

monocasa wrote: post #33

I'm not sure what anyone expected when we cut China off of chip IP. We did the same thing in the US, we had a policy of just straight up encouraging people to memorize patents before they immigrated over, and paying for their family to immigrate with them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater

Are there more examples of this? I want to cite them every time people defend intellectual property.

Fuchsine dye was patented in France, so factories moved to Switzerland to produce it freely. Now pharma is one of Switzerland's main industries.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#110

Post by hintymad » Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

denverkarma wrote: post #64

So when is the western world going to wake up and realize that China is a cutthroat competitor that does not respect western law or traditions, cannot be trusted, and intends to dominate the world? This seems especially troubling for the tech world as IP is easily copied and the only thing that really protects it is the legal system, which China has shown over and over they don't care about.

I have an honest question: why could China catch up to the western countries in many verticals and even become the dominant player, while in history the western could stay lightyears ahead of developing countries, no matter how hard the developing countries tried, with or without government interference or industrial espionage? What's changed?