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Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

sciencemag.org

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Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#91

Post by vibrato2 »

jjuel wrote: post #71
vibrato2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the part of the fda statement this week where they said they have no long term data available?

Do you also realize the disease has only been around for maybe around 2 years at most? So we really have no long term data on effects from getting COVID naturally either. Considering we have plenty of data on other vaccines being quite safe in the long term. I would rather play that game than the "I am relatively healthy so I'll risk getting a deadly disease" I am aware I could still get COVID while vaccinated, but I…

We have no encouraging long term data from any mRNA therapy. this is brand new. The animal tests were concerning to put it mildly.

Your chances of serious illness are lower for now. ADE shows dose dependent acceleration, so by the 4th or 5th booster it may be a different story.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#92

Post by jlmorton »

ProjectBarks wrote: post #85

This feels like an irresponsible title on behalf of the author. People don’t get the vaccine strictly on the strength of the vaccine. It’s considering the risk of getting COVID, understanding the long term side effects, and minimizing risk for those around you. It’s also about avoiding mutations of the virus as the higher availability of the virus only provides more opportunities for it to mutate into something more…

What is the harm?

"I'm very worried about getting Covid, but I'm also worried about the vaccine, so I'll get Covid to protect me against Covid?"

This is an important public health topic to model how the pandemic proceeds as more and more are naturally infected.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#93

Post by dabbledash »

h2odragon wrote: post #62

Why is "natural infections and recovery produce a better immune response than a vaccine" so controversial? Has it been this controversial for any other disease?

As you can see from some previous replies, it’s because people are less concerned with what’s true than with how (they believe) information will influence the behavior of others.

The apparent prevalence of this attitude in media and public health is eroding the credibility of those institutions, imo.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#94

Post by Expirat »

h2odragon wrote: post #62

Why is "natural infections and recovery produce a better immune response than a vaccine" so controversial? Has it been this controversial for any other disease?

No it never was controversial. But know you MUST accept de vaccine, unlike the seasonal usual flu for which nobody cared if you really were vaccinated against or not, pre 2020. Natural infections being better than vaccine goes against this cultish idea, because taking the vaccine is a symbol of trust in the mainstream, of faith in the science and trust in the system of academia-pharma-govenrments-media we have right now. Not taking the vaccine is a clear symbol of distrust in the system aforementioned and in the wisdom of current elites.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#96

Post by criticaltinker »

alsetmusic wrote: post #6

What about a person who is vaccinated and then has an asymptotic case? Do they still build up even better immunity? If so, that’s still a great reason to vaccinate.

Individuals who were naturally infected and then vaccinated, or vice-versa, should be well protected. It is unclear if a combination of the two provides better immunity especially when challenged by variants of concern. However, preliminary in vitro evidence (cited in OP) suggests that yes, a combination of the two may confer better short-term protection than either one alone [1].

> The data suggest that immunity in convalescent individuals will be very long lasting and that convalescent individuals who receive available mRNA vaccines will produce antibodies and memory B cells that should be protective against circulating SARS-CoV-2 variants. [1]

[1] Naturally enhanced neutralizing breadth against SARS-CoV-2 one year after infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03696-9

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#97

Post by travisporter »

peteradio wrote: post #36
bigmattystyles wrote: post #14

But don’t you risk long hauler symptoms or worse? Meaning, it’s an interesting datapoint but not a viable strategy.

Its not about vaccine vs natural immunity. Its about immunity vs mandates. Getting covid intentionally is stupid. If you feel up to it, get the vaccine. Any encounter with covid will be milder. However, some people have already had it and are frankly being unjustly discriminated in some states and institutions. I'm not against vaccines but the treatment of previously infected people as second tier has got to stop.

I would equate it to hiring for a job: saying you have a college degree (history of infection) < showing the degree (proof of vaccination) < showing your GPA (antibody levels). This is because my colleagues say of covid: "oh, just sniffles" versus "worst sore throat and muscle aches of my life". Unlikely both these immune systems are similarly trained to fight covid

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#99

Post by esteth »

newsclues wrote: post #88
kiba wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To develop natural immunity, you would need to get infected with the virus, no? That's considerably more risky than getting the vaccine. If you do get infected with the virus after vaccination, wouldn't you also develop natural immunity?

If you got Covid before vaccines were available that risk assessment is irrelevant. If you get COVID after vaccination, your immune system may not learn how to fight COVID-19 as well, because the vaccine is present and doing something.

The vaccine isn't doing anything in your body to fight COVID-19 infection actively. Your immune system is doing the fighting regardless.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#100

Post by macintux »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #84
vibrato2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the realistic uncertainty and probability from previous study of antibody dependent enhancement. It’s not proven that the mRNA therapy won’t worsen covid reaction in the long run.

> It’s not proven that the mRNA therapy won’t worsen covid reaction in the long run. What are you defining by "long run"? We're quickly moving into a year with mRNA therapies. I'm not aware of any instance of this occurring with previous vaccines, and we can't just say "well mRNA could be different" because if we do that all the possible "what-ifs" we quickly swing into the absurd.

Dengue is the notable counterexample, but that seems unlikely to be an issue with COVID. AFAIK, it’s the virus’ behavior that matters, not the vaccine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue_fever#Vaccine

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