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Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

sciencemag.org

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Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#11

Post by AndrewBissell »

tacomonstrous wrote: post #7

>the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher This sounds convincing, but then in the next graf: >For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the…

Have you ever looked at the numbers on the vaccine trials? Especially the ones in children under 18?

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#12

Post by kiba »

tacomonstrous wrote: post #7

>the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher This sounds convincing, but then in the next graf: >For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the…

To develop natural immunity, you would need to get infected with the virus, no? That's considerably more risky than getting the vaccine.

If you do get infected with the virus after vaccination, wouldn't you also develop natural immunity?

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#13

Post by mc32 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #5

I can only consider this a positive for those who are vaccine hesitant, as they will probably be getting it, but I can't see how, considering the realistic dangers of a vaccine, a rational individual wouldn't want both forms of protection even if they were previously infected.

I think people in high risk groups should get it, i.e., the elderly and people with weak immune systems or other health issues. Those who are strong health wise ok, they stand a good chance.

That said, I am totally against this blanket insistence on passports. There may be some situations which warrant vaccinations where the subject has no acquired immunity, health workers, etc. But being denied access to govt services because you lack the papers is not a good thing.

Edit: asking for a mask is okay. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. It’s when they require proof of vaccination that I have problem (mind you, I’m vaccinated).

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#15

Post by hungnv »

alsetmusic wrote: post #6

What about a person who is vaccinated and then has an asymptotic case? Do they still build up even better immunity? If so, that’s still a great reason to vaccinate.

Great point, the research should also investigate more about this case, since its get published it will create more negative effect to people who dont believe in vaccine but believe in themselves they will never die because of Covid

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#16

Post by epistasis »

cestith wrote: post #10
tacomonstrous wrote: post #7

>the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher This sounds convincing, but then in the next graf: >For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the…

Are you saying 32,000 people isn't a large enough study to be meaningful?

For low-prevalence events the number of events that happened is just as important for statistical power as the big 32,000.

Especially when doing relative risk, the confidence interval on that "27 times" could be extremely large.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#17

Post by giantg2 »

alsetmusic wrote: post #6

What about a person who is vaccinated and then has an asymptotic case? Do they still build up even better immunity? If so, that’s still a great reason to vaccinate.

And does that affect the timing or need for booster shots?

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#18

Post by AndrewBissell »

blablablub wrote: post #8

Survivorship bias comes to mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Not sure how that's really relevant when over 99% of people in both the vaccinated and unvaccinated cohorts do not die from Covid.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#19

Post by Hinrik »

cestith wrote: post #10
tacomonstrous wrote: post #7

>the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher This sounds convincing, but then in the next graf: >For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the…

Are you saying 32,000 people isn't a large enough study to be meaningful?

It's more about the small effect sizes of 8 people vs 1. Still a lot of room for noise in the result.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#20

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #9
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #5

I can only consider this a positive for those who are vaccine hesitant, as they will probably be getting it, but I can't see how, considering the realistic dangers of a vaccine, a rational individual wouldn't want both forms of protection even if they were previously infected.

What is the realistic marginal increase in protection from the vaccine for someone who has recovered and is in a very low risk age/comorbidities cohort? Is reducing their absolute risk of a really bad Covid outcome by 0.00001% really worth the risks attendant in the vaccine? Also, at least one study has hinted that the second dose may reduce humoral immunity.

I'm not sure, but we'd need to be dealing with something like your 0.000001% number before the risks started to outweigh the benefits, wouldn't we? Even a half or a tenth or a hundredth of a percent increase would be far beyond any sort of vaccination risk.

> Also, at least one study has hinted that the second dose may reduce humoral immunity.

I don't think we can base current best choices upon things which are merely hinted, especially when they are so counter intuitive, and as far as I'm aware, outside of our experience with other vaccinations.

It also highlights that we still don't know everything, and I'd definitely make decisions based upon an abundance of caution, leaning towards more protection.

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