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Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

directorsblog.nih.gov

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Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#141

Post by bobbytit »

jiocrag wrote: post #108
bobbytit wrote: post #99

This more recent Thai study shows that natural immunity is far superior for all known variants... https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210719/Thai-study-looks-...

CoronaVac vaccine? This is a much less effective vaccine than Pfizer and Moderna ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac ), so it's not surprising that natural immunity would be superior.

What about the Israeli study then.. http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.spectator.co.uk/arti...

It found that double pfizer jabbed people were 13 times more likely to be infected than those who had already recovered.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#142

Post by logicalmonster »

strenholme wrote: post #127
incrudible wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first principle for vaccines to be administered ethically is that the benefit must be outweigh the risk. As trials have not completed and more information on vaccine side-effects is yet to be accumulated, this risk/benefit can be assessed only speculatively. For instance, this[1] study suggests that the risk of Myocarditis from COVID in young men is six times higher from an infection than from a vaccination. If w…

What the linked study [1] is saying is that unvaccinated people who get COVID-19 are even more likely to get Myocarditis than vaccinated people ; it counters the allegation that people should not get vaccinated because of the risk of Myocarditis. Even if the vaccine increased the risk (it doesn’t), the risk of COVID-19 is orders of magnitude higher than the risk of the Myocarditis heart condition. There have been, fr…

> COVID-19, on the other hand, has an overall 1.66% chance of killing someone (38,043,754 cases, 629,644 deaths).

An honest, apples to apples statistical comparison here would compare 18-24 year old death rates to 18-24 year old heart problems risk, not lumping all deaths regardless of age together.

> I would rather take a 0.002% non-fatal risk than a 1.66% fatal risk.

Statistical problems aside, I’m happy if you take a vaccine or boosters that you feel is necessary for your health.

I think all the unvaccinated want is the same absolute right to decide the same for themselves.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#143

Post by mindfulplay »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #3

The spike protein targeting antibodies produced by the vaccine do indeed target a wider range of spike mutations than the spike protein antibodies from previous infection. However, vaccines only target spike protein, while a previous infection will cause your body to produce antibodies for a much larger set of targets on the virus, which in practice leads to a more robust immunity. This is supported by data from Isra…

The vaccines also lack a specific abnormal side effect that the infection may carry: risk of death and hospitalization.

Now with death, one could argue that it does provide much longer lasting immunity....

Seriously though, for most people the severity of infection-derived immunity is preconditioned upon them surviving the disease so this looks like the classic "planes with bullet holes" image?

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#144

Post by bobbytit »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #123

The media and government overreaction to this virus is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on the human race.

Biggest is a big claim. After they got away with the climate change scam they realised they can get away with anything. Two plus two equals five. Carbon dioxide is pollution not plant food.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#145

Post by jacquesm »

dnautics wrote: post #132
IgorPartola wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. This smells of literal survivor bias. The group that survives the delta variant is a smaller set than all who got infected while all vaccinated persons survived, even ones that wouldn’t have survived without the vaccine.

While true, it's not by much; mortality for covid-19 is less than a percent of all hospitalizations, iirc.

You make it sound as if that's good news.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#146

Post by fspeech »

mindfulplay wrote: post #143
bananabiscuit wrote: post #3

The spike protein targeting antibodies produced by the vaccine do indeed target a wider range of spike mutations than the spike protein antibodies from previous infection. However, vaccines only target spike protein, while a previous infection will cause your body to produce antibodies for a much larger set of targets on the virus, which in practice leads to a more robust immunity. This is supported by data from Isra…

The vaccines also lack a specific abnormal side effect that the infection may carry: risk of death and hospitalization. Now with death, one could argue that it does provide much longer lasting immunity.... Seriously though, for most people the severity of infection-derived immunity is preconditioned upon them surviving the disease so this looks like the classic "planes with bullet holes" image?

Not with inactivated virus. There are vaccines based on that.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#147

Post by Johnny555 »

randomopining wrote: post #95
arisAlexis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then the question is, should you as a vaccinated healthy person mind getting infected in the sense that it can shield you maybe even more from future variants or is this a dangerous game to play?

That's what I've been proposing for a few months. Get the vaccine and then get the delta variant a few weeks later to crush it and then be super immune for future variants that jet off of that one.

The vaccine is highly effective at preventing severe disease requiring hospitalization, but nothing is 100% (after 6 months, Pfizer is 97% effective at preventing severe disease) -- I'm not going to deliberately expose myself to something that could put me in a hospital.

And no point, really. If I'm going to force myself to have the disease to build up immunity, why not just wait until I'm accidentally exposed (which may not happen)?

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#148

Post by Johnny555 »

dimgl wrote: post #93
brainbrane wrote: post #54

I just learned last week that my COVID antibody count from the vaccine is zero. Since I'm on an immunosuppressing medication that wipes out the B cells in my bloodstream, this isn't really all that surprising to me. I learned about this because I'm in a medical study, and other people in the study who take the same medication also don't produce any COVID antibodies in response to the vaccine. What's interesting is th…

> What's interesting is that I still get side effects from the vaccine What side effects? How can you know this is coming from the vaccine? > I've been managing an autoimmune disease (MS) for the past 25 years. Wouldn't it be more likely that this [multiple sclerosis] is the cause of your symptoms?

Wouldn't it be more likely that this [multiple sclerosis] is the cause of your symptoms?

More likely than "immunosuppressing medication that wipes out the B cells in my bloodstream"?

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#149

Post by rubyist5eva »

bobbytit wrote: post #144
rubyist5eva wrote: post #123

The media and government overreaction to this virus is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on the human race.

Biggest is a big claim. After they got away with the climate change scam they realised they can get away with anything. Two plus two equals five. Carbon dioxide is pollution not plant food.

The covid-19 scamdemic has damaged this planet in 18 months in ways the climate scam couldn't even dream.

The most effective solution to "climate change" is planting trees. Also the cheapest, but you can't spend trillions of dollars of taxpayer money out to your corporate buddies if you just plant trees!

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#150

Post by __blockcipher__ »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #120
rossdavidh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the last link: "Conclusions: This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection a…

GP is not disputing that. They're pointing out that we know this, but not why.

It might seem small but they only said it was longer lasting, not that it was stronger:

> is longer lasting than from the vaccine

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