Live data from Hacker News

CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

tibetanreview.net

41–50 of 234 posts

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#41
A reminder of how great life was for Tibetans under the feudal, theocratic serfdom of the lamas [1].

[1] “In old Tibet there were small numbers of farmers who subsisted as a kind of free peasantry, and perhaps an additional 10,000 people who composed the “middle-class” families of merchants, shopkeepers, and small traders. Thousands of others were beggars. There also were slaves, usually domestic servants, who owned nothing. Their offspring were born into slavery. 15 The majority of the rural population were serfs. Treated little better than slaves, the serfs went without schooling or medical care, They were under a lifetime bond to work the lord's land--or the monastery’s land--without pay, to repair the lord's houses, transport his crops, and collect his firewood. They were also expected to provide carrying animals and transportation on demand.16 Their masters told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama.”

“ The serfs were taxed upon getting married, taxed for the birth of each child and for every death in the family. They were taxed for planting a tree in their yard and for keeping animals. They were taxed for religious festivals and for public dancing and drumming, for being sent to prison and upon being released. Those who could not find work were taxed for being unemployed, and if they traveled to another village in search of work, they paid a passage tax. When people could not pay, the monasteries lent them money at 20 to 50 percent interest. Some debts were handed down from father to son to grandson. Debtors who could not meet their obligations risked being cast into slavery.20”

“There were handcuffs of all sizes, including small ones for children, and instruments for cutting off noses and ears, gouging out eyes, breaking off hands, and hamstringing legs. There were hot brands, whips, and special implements for disemboweling. The exhibition presented photographs and testimonies of victims who had been blinded or crippled or suffered amputations for thievery. There was the shepherd whose master owed him a reimbursement in yuan and wheat but refused to pay. So he took one of the master’s cows; for this he had his hands severed. Another herdsman, who opposed having his wife taken from him by his lord, had his hands broken off.”

- http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#42

https://freetibet.org/about/legal-status-tibet Imagine being called a minority in a place you are the majority and have lived for centuries before occupation. https://www.britannica.com/place/Tibet/People "The population of the region is almost entirely Tibetan, with Han (Chinese), Hui (Chinese Muslims), Monba, Lhoba, and other minority nationalities. Thus, the majority of the people of Tibet have the same ethnic ori…

So, native Americans?

Not sure of the point of this comment, other than textbook whataboutism.

Yes, the situation with the Native Americans wrt the expansion of European settlement in the Americas is similar.

At the same time, chattel slavery was widespread and common amongst most nations in the world. Should we tolerate a nation today having slavery because it was a thing for us previously?

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#43
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tibetan people represent 0.4% of the Chinese population: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_people

Tibet isn't China. They got Crimea'd in the "Peaceful Liberation of Tibet"

In replying to

> Native Americans represent 1.7% of the US population

I think the analogy between (Tibetan people, China) and (native American people, US) makes sense.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#44
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native Americans are not the majority in the Americas, outside of reservations. So if you meant "Native Americans on a Native American reservation", then I guess so... but I don't think they're considered a minority in that context, are there?

They clearly were in at one point, which is why the situation is comparable.

Also Tibetans aren't the majority in Shanghai, just Tibet - Like native Americans on current reservations, which continued to shrink in size for a long time.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, native Americans?

Do you think the 17th-century treatment of Native Americans is a good template for the treatment of minority-majority populations? I'd like to think we've gotten better.

From a colonial perspective, colonists got everything they wanted

it's a good template for anyone looking to take sovereignty over somebody else's land.

If you're trying to do that, youre already dropping ethics

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#46
post #14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native Americans represent 1.7% of the US population: https://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=3&lvlid=6...

Tibetan people represent 0.4% of the Chinese population: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_people

But the statement being replied to was

> Imagine being called a minority in a place you are the majority

which implies that only the area of Tibet is being discussed. And

> Tibetan people represent 0.4% of the Chinese population

implies that all of China is being discussed.

So there's a disconnect there. The comment about Native Americans was presumably being read in the context of "Native Americans in the Unites States", which is a context where they are, indeed, a minority.

I expect the original comment about Native Americans was made in the sense of "like how the US treated Native Americans", not "the facts presented (majority, living there for a long time) also apply to the Native Americans". Whereas the reply to that comment was, I assume, made based on the second interpretation.

So not dense or intentional, just a different understanding of what was being said, because of ambiguity.

And, because people like to feel superior and assume everyone interprets everything the same way they do even when ambiguous, the poor responder got a bunch of down votes lumped on them.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#47

https://freetibet.org/about/legal-status-tibet Imagine being called a minority in a place you are the majority and have lived for centuries before occupation. https://www.britannica.com/place/Tibet/People "The population of the region is almost entirely Tibetan, with Han (Chinese), Hui (Chinese Muslims), Monba, Lhoba, and other minority nationalities. Thus, the majority of the people of Tibet have the same ethnic ori…

I believe the CCP is encouraging Han to move there until the Tibetans are no longer the majority. They may have already accomplished this, as an accurate census is hard to find.

Yup. That is a page from the cultural assimilation playbook. This is also why much effort went into building a rail line from the heartlands of China into Tibet, including crazy engineering feats necessary to stabilize soil within the weather extremes of those region.

Another page from the playbook: standardize the official script in which you write the spoken language. That has happened multiple times in Chinese history. And American history too.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#48

China is pretty scary in this way. The Han ethnic group is the majority in population and leadership and it is enacting policies to suppress the population numbers of non Han-ethnic groups in the country. They do it via birth control and family separation so it happening slowly but it is still decreasing the population of non-Han ethnic groups in comparison to the Han ethnic group. When this was done elsewhere it was…

>Imagine if Israel You don't have to imagine. https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-ethiopians-coerced-into-bir...

The fuller quote that you conveniently leftout for it to match your sources is:

> if Israel wanted its Arab population on birth control

(emphasis mine)

So, for a start the article is about something completely different.

Secondly the article seems pretty open about the fact that the claims are dubious at best.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#49
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native Americans represent 1.7% of the US population: https://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=3&lvlid=6...

What percentage of the population of the land that is now the US did they represent when Europeans first started colonies there? From the CCP's perspective, would a similar decline in percentage be desirable? From our historical view of the US, are the actions that got us here praiseworthy?

To be fair, a majority of the native population died due to the Europeans inadvertently introducing Smallpox. While I agree with your argument as a whole, I would advise against trying to use numerical arguments for Europe's treatment of the natives.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#50

https://freetibet.org/about/legal-status-tibet Imagine being called a minority in a place you are the majority and have lived for centuries before occupation. https://www.britannica.com/place/Tibet/People "The population of the region is almost entirely Tibetan, with Han (Chinese), Hui (Chinese Muslims), Monba, Lhoba, and other minority nationalities. Thus, the majority of the people of Tibet have the same ethnic ori…

So, native Americans?

Recent discoveries of cultural genocide of natives in Canada also tells quite a story: children taken from families, school graveyards...

We, Europeans, are a cynical crowd.

Post reply on HN