Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate • Hacker News Board

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#231

Post by harshreality » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

bxrxdx wrote: post #135

harshreality wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't make sense in this context. They're literally changing nothing except the mRNA sequence. If a new vaccine is made by taking a gene sequence from a virus protein that's already in the wild, and packaging it into a delivery mechanism (LNP) that's already approved for another vaccine... If there are any strange reactions to the new spike protein, that would also be caused by the wild virus spike protein,…

Right, all you're changing is the mRNA, but that can still be really dangerous. What if you code for a protein that causes cross-reactivity with a human protein and you give millions of people an auto-immune disorder? I'm 1000% pro mRNA vaccines and pro covid vaccines, but they still need to be tested.

Then the virus variant itself would cause autoimmune disease, and we'd have a much bigger problem than deciding whether to approve a new vaccine.

For fuck's sake, I'm not saying do no testing. I would assume they do basic checks, first in humanized animals, then using bioassays to try to detect all sorts of problems including antibody cross-reactivity with a wide variety of human cells. I'm also not against a preliminary limited human trial, with bloodwork checked after a few weeks to try to see if the assays missed anything obvious.

Short of that, what do you want them to do? We can't wait years to see if people develop symptomatic auto-immune problems. If we even wait 3-6 months for each new protein, the time advantage offered by mRNA or adenovirus vaccine tech is blown, or at least reduced to the point where there's no ability to react quickly to changing dominant viral strains in a pandemic, or new outbreaks of known diseases.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#232

Post by nexuist » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #88

detaro wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anthrax is a standard vaccination, really? that one seems kind of surprising.

Oops. Started listing all vaccines and then took the response in a different direction. Deleted Anthrax.

For the record, there is an anthrax vaccine at least in the US, but it is reserved for service members and politicians due to the potential for side effects. I believe we have a stockpile of a few million shots in the event of an outbreak, but that stuff is guarded by national security confidentiality so there's no way to know how prepared we really are.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#233

Post by acdha » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

foxhop wrote: post #210

wil421 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WW2 had the Red Scare, Japanese interment camps, and shocking amounts of human experimentation. I would like to hear about the fear mongering and downright lies that were going on during WW2 from someone who was there. I’d bet there was lots of misinformation going around, social media has made those types of things flourish. If you look back at history through rose-tinted glasses everything will appear better than i…

Especially once it stops being about race when we say we need to investigate how humans used the Scienctific process took "a solution in search of a problem" and collected samples laboratories, like searching for a needle in a haystack in Wuhan to purposefully replicate and infect chimeric rat/humans with bat viruses. Whether maliciously or not that is the likely prevailing Truth on why we now have a 5th corona virus…

Do you have sources for those claims? As computer scientist I’m certain you should understand the importance of reproducible data and analysis.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#234

Post by mantas » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

burntwater wrote: post #192

mantas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's super easy to treat if caught early. But that's where the good ends. Vast majority of cases present the infamous circle. But some don't. And if you got the circle in a hard-to-notice spot, it's easy to miss it (it will a month or two into infection) too. First precaution is to check your legs (and possibly torso/hands) for ticks after passing through high grass. And whole body after coming from the woods. The na…

Mostly good advice, except for the one comment: >Vast majority of cases present the infamous circle. But some don't. I believe it's actually the other way around, only 20-30% of cases show the "typical" bullseye.

IIRC 20-30% is for the picturesque classic bullseye. A small amount of cases have no skin indication at all. And the rest get various other rashes. Maybe circley without gradient, maybe bullseye-ish square, maybe just a random redness. Itchiness may or may not be there too.

Personally I had Lyme twice. Neither was 100% bullseye. The first that I let stay for a while before realising what is going on had little bullseye-ish gradient and was a perfect circle. It took some time to develop the gradient. Next time I realised what is going on very early and all I had was a red patch. I don't know if it would have developed the pattern if I didn't take antibiotics literally the next day after little redness appeared at the tick bite location.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#235

Post by bildung » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #191

bildung wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge Pfizer didn't really invest anything, it was the German population who financed Biontech through funds paid with taxes: the lab infrastructure pre-covid (through funded cancer research), the vaccine trials, and mass production (both directly and through pre-purchases before the vaccine existed).

Biontech invested in the early research. Pfizer invested a lot more into manufacturing and the trials. Both are needed at different times. What Pfizer invested in was a lot lower risk (don't confuse that with low risk - it wasn't except by comparison!), but they invested far more money. Quit trying to sell either short - without both investments we would be in lockdown yet.

I really looked into that quite deeply. Biontech got so much money for funding the trials that they apparently had too much and put it in reserve for 2022. The public invested billions into building production capacity.

I'd be glad to see what Pfizer actually invested that wasn't backed by prepurchases.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#236

Post by Ensorceled » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

nexuist wrote: post #232

Ensorceled wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops. Started listing all vaccines and then took the response in a different direction. Deleted Anthrax.

For the record, there is an anthrax vaccine at least in the US, but it is reserved for service members and politicians due to the potential for side effects. I believe we have a stockpile of a few million shots in the event of an outbreak, but that stuff is guarded by national security confidentiality so there's no way to know how prepared we really are.

Yep. Active duty service in Canada get a shit load as well, all the stuff they already should have got as kids and at least Yellow Fever, Typhoid and, I think, Hep A.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#237

Post by rddlob » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

harshreality wrote: post #231

bxrxdx wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, all you're changing is the mRNA, but that can still be really dangerous. What if you code for a protein that causes cross-reactivity with a human protein and you give millions of people an auto-immune disorder? I'm 1000% pro mRNA vaccines and pro covid vaccines, but they still need to be tested.

Then the virus variant itself would cause autoimmune disease, and we'd have a much bigger problem than deciding whether to approve a new vaccine. For fuck's sake, I'm not saying do no testing. I would assume they do basic checks, first in humanized animals, then using bioassays to try to detect all sorts of problems including antibody cross-reactivity with a wide variety of human cells. I'm also not against a prelimi…

>Then the virus variant itself would cause autoimmune disease

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about or why the GP comment mentioned an autoimmune disease specifically. mRNA vaccines express specific proteins whereas the virus expresses entire viral molecules. A novel protein expression could cause an autoimmune disease because the novel proteins couls cause the immune system to attack the cells producing the isolated proteins, a problem you wouldnt have with cells producing entire viral bodies.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#238

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #226

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should assume the strongest interpretation of the comments you reply to, it leads to better conversations and is part of the site's guidelines. I disagree about the fact that they're unfounded having read the comment I replied to, therefore it follows I do not believe the results of the FDA's investigation are conclusive. I illustrate this with the Hep-B vaccine for which the health-autorities have not found a ca…

Wait. You quoting the site's guidelines because the poster assumed you were questioning the unfounded claim but now you are stating you disagree with the unfounded claim? I'm confused. Can you clarify you stance here?

Assuming I'm questioning the unfounded claim is not the issue. I'm quoting the site's guidelines because the poster copied verbatim the message I was responding to. This is either quite snarky or assumes very low reading ability on my part.

In short the exchange was:

A: "The claims are unfounded because the FDA found no causal link."

B: "The claims might not be unfounded because the absence of evidence of a causal link is not sufficient to qualify them as such, as is evident by this legal precedent and my personal experience."

C: "`the FDA found no causal link.`"

I hope this clarifies things, I'm afraid we're getting very meta.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#239

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

andrekandre wrote: post #224

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple oedemas and the appearance of enlarged veins far away from where the vaccine was injected.

got any links about this?

What do you mean? That's some of my sister's symptoms.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#240

Post by GrinningFool » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

incrudible wrote: post #187

GrinningFool wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, look at the delta variant of Covid, the mRNA vaccines reduce the severity of infection, but do not prevent infection or spreading thereof. I keep seeing that surface here. It is at odds with what I'm reading that says it /is/ effective at preventing infection[1] though not perfectly so. Are we looking at different metrics, or is my own ignorance of the field preventing me from fully understanding what I"m r…

It is a function of time. During the trials, it was a 95% reduction, Israel last reported a 39% reduction.

But that doesn't equate to saying that it is ineffective at preventing infection. I think we'd need follow-up studies showing a trend towards zero, but that doesn't seem to exist yet.