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Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

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Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#181

Post by EL_Loco »

nyolfen wrote: post #117
amyjess wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. One of the things that'll come out of this is tha…

> At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. but we actually won that war, which precipitate…

What makes you think the war wasn't won despite pathetic and fumbling actions by leaders and governments? WW2 wasn't a showcase of efficiency and practicality. Ha, my country sent a small contingent (25k) to fight against the Axis in Italy. There were new uniforms made for this expeditionary force. Turns out they chose uniforms that closely matched that of the german uniforms (!). From a book on this subject: "Another problem in the country's preparation was the production of uniforms similar to those of the German Army. 'They even threw rocks at us in Naples thinking we were the invaders'.”

I thought the rollout of the vaccines in the time it took, with the effectiveness it had, just went to show how the knowledge and technology of vaccines makes it one of the greatest human achievements, ever.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#182

Post by kadoban »

desine wrote: post #104
kadoban wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A desire to avoid being called anti-vax.

Out of curiosity, if you're onboard with previous typical vaccination, but hesitant to jump on board with mRNA treatments, what are you? Does that now fall under "anti-vax" in internet lingo? Is wise to group everyone under one umbrella term?

What's the point in differentiating? They at best deluded themselves with a slightly different brand of anti-vax propaganda. Do we need a separate term?

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#183

Post by sbsosbdba »

542354234235 wrote: post #142
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfounded claims from 100s of people developing imaginary autoimmune disorders? Mind you people are still getting compensated in court for autoimmune disorders arising from the Hep-B vaccine, even though no causal link was found. Just yesterday I had to accompany my sister to the phlebologist, because of severe side-effects from Pfizer, he told us he was seeing troves of patients for similar reasons even though offic…

> Just yesterday I had to accompany my sister to the phlebologist, because of severe side-effects from Pfizer, he told us he was seeing troves of patients for similar reasons even though officially no causal-link was established. This is the issue with correlation vs causation. When you look at sufficiently large group, like tens of millions of people, some percentage of them are going to die for various reasons. Som…

You compare the vaccine to birth control to dismiss the risks of the vaccine, however birth control is taken by sexually active and mature women.

That is people who have a real probability risk and want to avoid getting pregnant. You don't give birth control to 10 year old girls or to boys.

In the OP’s case his sister was in the low risk category (quite young). So its not obvious that a priori the vaccine outweighed the risks. Nor is it obvious that the young have a moral responsibility to to society to take on a personal risk to ameliorate a risk that doesn't affect them (this is unlike a defensive war where, presumably, the defending youth will also suffer devastation if their country is overrun)

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#184

Post by nradov »

ajmurmann wrote: post #159
inglor_cz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it means rerunning the trials again. These requirements will have to be loosened for anti-Covid vaccines. They are tailored to other diseases, but SARS-CoV-2 mutates too fast. The flu vaccine has an exception, too, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to prepare the correct vaccine (against the expected dominant strain) on time.

I think the best solution here would be challenge trials. With it without them we are relying on people getting sick. With challenge trials we just reduce how many people outside the trial get sick as well because we can massively cut down on time. I'd be more than happy to take the new vaccine and get exposed to Delta. It's a easy way to make a huge contribution to society.

Human challenge trials have started in the UK.

https://ukcovidchallenge.com/

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#185

Post by sbsosbdba »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #129
darkerside wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gives you so much confidence it was the vaccine? Correlation does not equal causation, as we all know around here.

I'm not confident one way or another. But I'm not ready to take this story at face value as a sad story of a vaccine being recalled because of a few loud-mouthed anti-science idiots just because "no causal-link was established by the FDA". Health-policy and politics in general have a perverse effect on the science. What was the official stance of the government one day becomes misinformation the next, and vice-versa.…

Very well said.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#186

Post by bluGill »

GrinningFool wrote: post #163
EdwardDiego wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it though? mRNA vaccines just get your body to produce a particular protein you want to induce an immune response to, instead of injecting the protein directly. Is it really the slow uptake of mRNA techniques that's prevented an HIV vaccine? Or is it HIV's capacity for rapidly mutating into large numbers of disparate strains inside one person, let alone in the entire community? I mean, look at the delta var…

> I mean, look at the delta variant of Covid, the mRNA vaccines reduce the severity of infection, but do not prevent infection or spreading thereof. I keep seeing that surface here. It is at odds with what I'm reading that says it /is/ effective at preventing infection[1] though not perfectly so. Are we looking at different metrics, or is my own ignorance of the field preventing me from fully understanding what I"m r…

The anti-vaxxine crowd has never had any problem with cherry picking the statistics that they can twist to show their view. I've been watching them do it for at least 10 years (and evidence they have been doing it longer), but only now is the rest of the public seeing it. I have just enough statistics to see what they are doing, but it is complex enough that most people don't understand it.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#187

Post by incrudible »

GrinningFool wrote: post #163
EdwardDiego wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it though? mRNA vaccines just get your body to produce a particular protein you want to induce an immune response to, instead of injecting the protein directly. Is it really the slow uptake of mRNA techniques that's prevented an HIV vaccine? Or is it HIV's capacity for rapidly mutating into large numbers of disparate strains inside one person, let alone in the entire community? I mean, look at the delta var…

> I mean, look at the delta variant of Covid, the mRNA vaccines reduce the severity of infection, but do not prevent infection or spreading thereof. I keep seeing that surface here. It is at odds with what I'm reading that says it /is/ effective at preventing infection[1] though not perfectly so. Are we looking at different metrics, or is my own ignorance of the field preventing me from fully understanding what I"m r…

It is a function of time. During the trials, it was a 95% reduction, Israel last reported a 39% reduction.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#189

Post by graywh »

inglor_cz wrote: post #48
honksillet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know why they haven't released a Delta varient vaccine? Is seems that it would just involved we changing the mRNA sequence in a computer at the factor, but I'm really just guessing. Also maybe it is considered a whole new vaccineand needs to go through approval again.

Because it means rerunning the trials again. These requirements will have to be loosened for anti-Covid vaccines. They are tailored to other diseases, but SARS-CoV-2 mutates too fast. The flu vaccine has an exception, too, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to prepare the correct vaccine (against the expected dominant strain) on time.

isn't the flu vaccine just a cocktail of existing vaccines tailored to the strains we predict will be active?

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#190

Post by incrudible »

kingkawn wrote: post #58
inglor_cz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it means rerunning the trials again. These requirements will have to be loosened for anti-Covid vaccines. They are tailored to other diseases, but SARS-CoV-2 mutates too fast. The flu vaccine has an exception, too, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to prepare the correct vaccine (against the expected dominant strain) on time.

One bad autoimmune reaction from a poorly engineered vaccine and the whole society will boycott the mRNA vaccines forever after. Safety is higher priority to ongoing viability than speed.

The number of people dead or severely ill from TTS is already in the hundreds. Where is the boycott of viral vector vaccines?
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