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Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

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Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#111

Post by PragmaticPulp »

darkerside wrote: post #105

I wonder if this might be effective as a treatment for chronic Lyme sufferers as well as a preventative measure.

Unfortunately it won’t, as Chronic Lyme is most likely lingering damage triggered by the initial infection rather than an actual ongoing infection.

There are some people who believe that chronic Lyme is caused by persistent hidden infections, but you have to cherry-pick a lot of evidence and ignore a lot of contradictory evidence to arrive at that conclusion. Regardless, it seems unlikely that the vaccine would help if the infection had some mechanism to hide from the immune system anyway, as they claim.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#112

Post by cbushko »

amyjess wrote: post #91
_Microft wrote: post #14

Prepare to read the headline "mRNA vaccine trial for " a lot in the future. My guess is that they are going to produce mRNA versions of basically any vaccine (and then some) in the future. The nice thing about the technology seems to be that you only need to exchange the mRNA payload while the surrounding delivery method can be reused. That makes it not only a fast method to create a vaccine but a very convenient way…

At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. One of the things that'll come out of this is tha…

So expect the next version of Spiderman to be based on a mRNA spider.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#113

Post by [deleted] »

darkerside wrote: post #99
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfounded claims from 100s of people developing imaginary autoimmune disorders? Mind you people are still getting compensated in court for autoimmune disorders arising from the Hep-B vaccine, even though no causal link was found. Just yesterday I had to accompany my sister to the phlebologist, because of severe side-effects from Pfizer, he told us he was seeing troves of patients for similar reasons even though offic…

What gives you so much confidence it was the vaccine? Correlation does not equal causation, as we all know around here.

[deleted]

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#114

Post by harshreality »

amyjess wrote: post #91
_Microft wrote: post #14

Prepare to read the headline "mRNA vaccine trial for " a lot in the future. My guess is that they are going to produce mRNA versions of basically any vaccine (and then some) in the future. The nice thing about the technology seems to be that you only need to exchange the mRNA payload while the surrounding delivery method can be reused. That makes it not only a fast method to create a vaccine but a very convenient way…

At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. One of the things that'll come out of this is tha…

> For example, it wouldn't surprise me if, the next time Marvel decides to make a new adaptation of Spider-Man, the spider will have been treated with mRNA instead of radiation (the original story) or gene therapy ('90s cartoon, '00s movies, maybe others).

mRNA vaccine tech being discussed here is not gene therapy. It cannot (appreciably) alter host DNA the way radiation or gene therapy can. It simply causes the host cells to manufacture desired proteins for a limited amount of time.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#115

Post by novaRom »

_Microft wrote: post #53
pibechorro wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should not call them vaccines, they work totally different. These are gene treatments.

That's incorrect. They are vaccines even while working differently. The body develops immunity in reaction to the spike proteins that it produced itself after turning the mRNA instructions contained in the vaccine into proteins (namely the spike proteins that the SARS-Cov2 virus uses to enter cells). Ribosomes, tiny and amazing molecular machines, read this mRNA and produce the encoded sequence of aminoacids. With ev…

Amazing technology. What I cannot understand is how can a foreign mRNA be injected so efficiently into host's cells without all the virus-like methods to be applied? Why should host cells be ready to accept any mRNA from their environment so blindly? Wouldn't it be used by natural selection to create subviral agents which will destroy such naive host cells rather quickly?

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#117

Post by nyolfen »

amyjess wrote: post #91
_Microft wrote: post #14

Prepare to read the headline "mRNA vaccine trial for " a lot in the future. My guess is that they are going to produce mRNA versions of basically any vaccine (and then some) in the future. The nice thing about the technology seems to be that you only need to exchange the mRNA payload while the surrounding delivery method can be reused. That makes it not only a fast method to create a vaccine but a very convenient way…

At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. One of the things that'll come out of this is tha…

> At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts.

but we actually won that war, which precipitated a rise to global hegemon status. covid has been a pathetic, fumbling showing, one that clearly reflects institutional decay and foreshadows future decline -- the reverse of the first situation

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#118

Post by detaro »

harshreality wrote: post #114
amyjess wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. One of the things that'll come out of this is tha…

> For example, it wouldn't surprise me if, the next time Marvel decides to make a new adaptation of Spider-Man, the spider will have been treated with mRNA instead of radiation (the original story) or gene therapy ('90s cartoon, '00s movies, maybe others). mRNA vaccine tech being discussed here is not gene therapy. It cannot (appreciably) alter host DNA the way radiation or gene therapy can. It simply causes the host…

correct, but parent didn't claim it was?

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#119

Post by jashephe »

I'm confused. Where does this say the vaccine is mRNA? The Valneva VLA15 website explicitly states "VLA15 is a multivalent recombinant protein vaccine" [1], and the linked press release calls it a "investigational multivalent protein subunit vaccine". Does nobody actually read these things?

See [2], "Subunit Vaccines".

[1] https://valneva.com/research-development/lyme-disease/

[2] https://www.niaid.nih.gov/research/vaccine-types

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#120

Post by darkerside »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #111
darkerside wrote: post #105

I wonder if this might be effective as a treatment for chronic Lyme sufferers as well as a preventative measure.

Unfortunately it won’t, as Chronic Lyme is most likely lingering damage triggered by the initial infection rather than an actual ongoing infection. There are some people who believe that chronic Lyme is caused by persistent hidden infections, but you have to cherry-pick a lot of evidence and ignore a lot of contradictory evidence to arrive at that conclusion. Regardless, it seems unlikely that the vaccine would help…

Can you share what kind of evidence is typically cherry picked or ignored in service of that conclusion? Genuinely curious.

If the infection does have that mechanism, would that invalidate the idea that a vaccine would be at all helpful?

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