Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate • Hacker News Board

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#161

Post by CountDrewku » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #120

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it won’t, as Chronic Lyme is most likely lingering damage triggered by the initial infection rather than an actual ongoing infection. There are some people who believe that chronic Lyme is caused by persistent hidden infections, but you have to cherry-pick a lot of evidence and ignore a lot of contradictory evidence to arrive at that conclusion. Regardless, it seems unlikely that the vaccine would help…

Can you share what kind of evidence is typically cherry picked or ignored in service of that conclusion? Genuinely curious. If the infection does have that mechanism, would that invalidate the idea that a vaccine would be at all helpful?

Not sure if there's evidence for that but it's much more likely to be the case.

There's no solid evidence "chronic lyme" exists either. The only "doctor's" you'll see treating it are typically into the naturopathic stuff and all other sorts of unproven treatments for things the medical community doesn't even agree exist.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#162

Post by CountDrewku » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #82

Thaxll wrote: post #7

Why is it a vaccine? Are there going to be vaccine for everything in the future?

Why wouldn't there be a vaccine? In Ontario, we give children vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, influenza, smallpox (well, I got it as a child), rotavirus, IPD, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, HPV, Hepatitis B, meningococcal disease. Ticks carrying Lyme disease are exploding in Ontario, probably because of climate change. It makes sense to get this into the rotation as soon as possible. After C…

>Ticks carrying Lyme disease are exploding in Ontario, probably because of climate change.

Do you have proof of this?

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#163

Post by GrinningFool » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

EdwardDiego wrote: post #145

amyjess wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. One of the things that'll come out of this is tha…

Why would it though? mRNA vaccines just get your body to produce a particular protein you want to induce an immune response to, instead of injecting the protein directly. Is it really the slow uptake of mRNA techniques that's prevented an HIV vaccine? Or is it HIV's capacity for rapidly mutating into large numbers of disparate strains inside one person, let alone in the entire community? I mean, look at the delta var…

> I mean, look at the delta variant of Covid, the mRNA vaccines reduce the severity of infection, but do not prevent infection or spreading thereof.

I keep seeing that surface here. It is at odds with what I'm reading that says it /is/ effective at preventing infection[1] though not perfectly so. Are we looking at different metrics, or is my own ignorance of the field preventing me from fully understanding what I"m reading?

[1] most recently - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e5.htm?s_cid=mm...

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#164

Post by pfisch » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

nyolfen wrote: post #117

amyjess wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. One of the things that'll come out of this is tha…

> At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. but we actually won that war, which precipitate…

The us actually handled the 1918 pandemic even worse than this one.

Public authorities largely claimed it wasn't happening and wasn't a big deal as hospitals overflowed and we dug mass graves.

They even cancelled public gatherings but pretended it was unrelated to a health crisis. Health responses in the us were completely scattershot, and no one trusted information coming out from the government.

Compared to that this response was actually far better and more organized.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#165

Post by fab1an » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

bxrxdx wrote: post #140

bart_spoon wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason is because they've found that simply boosting with the original mRNA gives a massive spike in protection even against Delta, apparently on par with variant specific versions of the vaccine. Another is that recent studies are showing that natural infection provides much more comprehensive, long-lasting immunity against all variants than the vaccination does, while vaccination with the current vaccines offer…

I haven't seen any research that says that infection acquired immunity is stronger or longer lasting than from vaccine. The opposite in fact.

Not an expert, but afaik there's been quite a few studies showing that natural immunity is superior to the vaccine-induced one - I'm also fairly sure that virologists have theorized to that end even before the data became available for the following reason: the vaccine is 100% focussed on detecting the spike protein, so changes to the spike can result in evasive variants. Natural immunity OTOH is developed against more sites of the virus and thus provide a more broad and robust response to variants, present and future.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#166

Post by 542354234235 » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

supperburg wrote: post #70

acdha wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first vaccine had a problem where it gave people Lyme every once in a while. Do you have a citation for that? The FDA review didn’t mention that: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/

> 59 reports of arthritis associated with vaccination Maybe it was coincidence. I’m just saying if the vaccine gave people Lyme, here’s my hypothesis. But it makes a lot of sense that an autoimmune disease created by exposure to X could be triggered by a vaccine containing X. The definition of a vaccine is to expose a person to whatever it is the immune system recognizes — spike proteins and so on. It’s plausible. Bu…

Let's include the entire quote

>By 2001, with over 1·4 million Lyme vaccine doses distributed in the United States the VAERS database included 905 reports of mild self-limited reactions and 59 reports of arthritis associated with vaccination [29]. The arthritis incidence in the patients receiving Lyme vaccine occurred at the same rate as the background in unvaccinated individuals. In addition, the data did not show a temporal spike in arthritis diagnoses after the second and third vaccine dose expected for an immune-mediated phenomenon. The FDA found no suggestion that the Lyme vaccine caused harm to its recipients.

54,000,000 Americans have had some form of arthritis [1]. I don’t exactly find it compelling that 0.0001% of them also happened to have gotten a vaccine.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#167

Post by timonoko » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

reustle wrote: post #125

timonoko wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds true. I actually had one and only tick in 1955. It was on my testicles, so very embarrassing.

It's pretty hard to say that confidently with how small deer ticks are. I find them crawling on me all the time in Pennsylvania, and those are just the larger ones. Have found a few deer ticks on me over the years, and good luck finding them in your hair without someone else to look.

I mean of course that I have never had a tick which managed to suck anything, except once in 1955.

Also I remember being drunk and watching Ixodes Ricinus move along my arm and trying to stick its nose thru skin. Everytime it backed up real fast, like it found something nasty inside. Very much the same thing as American deer tick Ixodes scapularis.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#168

Post by ChoGGi » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

exhilaration wrote: post #144

bxrxdx wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen any research that says that infection acquired immunity is stronger or longer lasting than from vaccine. The opposite in fact.

This was posted last night https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28307224

The first thread is commenting on the preprint status of that paper.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#169

Post by inglor_cz » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

bewaretheirs wrote: post #157

inglor_cz wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

J.G. is a famous case and his death definitely delayed development for a decade or more, but it should be noted that when he died, the technology was extremely untested in humans. We now have a few hundred million people who got mRNA vaccine and had no trouble. I don't think that even after a death, mRNA would be completely toast. It has already proven its merit.

mRNA? J.G.'s death involved an experimental modified adenovirus (the same family of viruses used as the vector for several non-mRNA COVID vaccines: Johnson & Johnson/Janssen, Astrazenica/Oxford, and Sputnik V).

The OP was mentioning J.G.'s case as an example of what could happen, too with rushed mRNA vaccines, and that the fallout would be bad.

Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate

#170

Post by Ensorceled » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:16 PM UTC

CountDrewku wrote: post #162

Ensorceled wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't there be a vaccine? In Ontario, we give children vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, influenza, smallpox (well, I got it as a child), rotavirus, IPD, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, HPV, Hepatitis B, meningococcal disease. Ticks carrying Lyme disease are exploding in Ontario, probably because of climate change. It makes sense to get this into the rotation as soon as possible. After C…

>Ticks carrying Lyme disease are exploding in Ontario, probably because of climate change. Do you have proof of this?

Which part do want proof of?

Google "ticks in ontario increasing" for literally dozens of references.

The "probably climate change" is supposition, hence the "probably" disclaimer, but a lot of those references above blame "milder winters" or climate change directly.