Why is it a vaccine? Are there going to be vaccine for everything in the future?
> Are there going to be vaccine for everything in the future?
We should be so lucky!
Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
141–150 of 271 posts
Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was one but it was taken off the market. It's a bit of a sad story because it worked but because of unfounded claims that it had side effects, it lost trust of the public: "In clinical trials involving more than 10,000 people, the vaccine, called LYMErix, was found to confer protective immunity to Borrelia in 76% of adults and 100% of children with only mild or moderate and transient adverse effects. [...] Subs…
Unfounded claims from 100s of people developing imaginary autoimmune disorders? Mind you people are still getting compensated in court for autoimmune disorders arising from the Hep-B vaccine, even though no causal link was found. Just yesterday I had to accompany my sister to the phlebologist, because of severe side-effects from Pfizer, he told us he was seeing troves of patients for similar reasons even though offic…
> Just yesterday I had to accompany my sister to the phlebologist, because of severe side-effects from Pfizer, he told us he was seeing troves of patients for similar reasons even though officially no causal-link was established.
This is the issue with correlation vs causation. When you look at sufficiently large group, like tens of millions of people, some percentage of them are going to die for various reasons. Some will have medical emergencies. Some will get cancer. So, you can’t just say “these people got the vaccine and then had this effect”. You have to look at how many were effected and compare that with the “normal” rate.
For instance, venous thromboembolism (VTE) already effects 2 out of every thousand Americans (600,000 cases a year) [1]. So, many people that get a vaccine will also experience some form of VTE because they were going to anyway. However, preliminary information is showing that the mRNA vaccine does cause about a 3 times increase in the risk of VTE, while covid causes about a 15 times increase [2]. For reference, taking hormonal birth control causes a 1.5 to 7 times increase risk of VTE [3]. So just taking birth control can be far more “dangerous” than the vaccine, so I wouldn’t beat yourself up.
[1] https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(09)00946-5/ful...
[2] https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210801/Risk-of-venous-th...
[3] https://helloclue.com/articles/sex/hormonal-birth-control-an...
Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you name any big company that does not work that way? Like Apple, Facebook, Ford, Tesla, Nestle ect ect. And what would be an alternative?
My understanding is that it has been known for years that mRNA is a viable vaccine delivery vector, but the R&D hadn't been completed for the other aspect of the business - production and safety at scale.
Afaik, it was backed up behind a lack of safety trials.
Given how expensive those are to run, and how mRNA's primary benefit (speed of development) wasn't a competitive advantage in "normal" times, we had something that we thought was better, but no financial case to toss the gobs of money at it to get it certified.
If SARS-CoV-2 is remembered for one thing, it should be for finally breaking the logjam and "giving" us approved mRNA platforms.
Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
One reason is because they've found that simply boosting with the original mRNA gives a massive spike in protection even against Delta, apparently on par with variant specific versions of the vaccine. Another is that recent studies are showing that natural infection provides much more comprehensive, long-lasting immunity against all variants than the vaccination does, while vaccination with the current vaccines offer…
I haven't seen any research that says that infection acquired immunity is stronger or longer lasting than from vaccine. The opposite in fact.
This was posted last night https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28307224
Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
#145Prepare to read the headline "mRNA vaccine trial for " a lot in the future. My guess is that they are going to produce mRNA versions of basically any vaccine (and then some) in the future. The nice thing about the technology seems to be that you only need to exchange the mRNA payload while the surrounding delivery method can be reused. That makes it not only a fast method to create a vaccine but a very convenient way…
At the beginning of the pandemic, people theorized that public health will influence future media for a generation, much like WW2 did. For decades, we got war TV shows, war movies, war comics, etc. Hogan's Heroes ran into the '70s, Sgt. Rock was published until the late '80s, and so on. And I think we're about to see the same with media based on public health efforts. One of the things that'll come out of this is tha…
Why would it though?
mRNA vaccines just get your body to produce a particular protein you want to induce an immune response to, instead of injecting the protein directly.
Is it really the slow uptake of mRNA techniques that's prevented an HIV vaccine? Or is it HIV's capacity for rapidly mutating into large numbers of disparate strains inside one person, let alone in the entire community?
I mean, look at the delta variant of Covid, the mRNA vaccines reduce the severity of infection, but do not prevent infection or spreading thereof.
mRNA vaccines will enable rapid iteration, which is good. But they're not a wonder drug at all.
Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
One bad autoimmune reaction from a poorly engineered vaccine and the whole society will boycott the mRNA vaccines forever after. Safety is higher priority to ongoing viability than speed.
But it doesn't make sense in this context. They're literally changing nothing except the mRNA sequence. If a new vaccine is made by taking a gene sequence from a virus protein that's already in the wild, and packaging it into a delivery mechanism (LNP) that's already approved for another vaccine... If there are any strange reactions to the new spike protein, that would also be caused by the wild virus spike protein,…
You're making the incorrect assumption that catching some new, dangerous strain of COVID is a guarantee. It isn't.
Pushing out a vaccine that causes harm, even if it's substantially less than the virus it protects against, is asking for a lot of trouble.
Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
#147I assume that mRNA will vaccinate for a lot of diseases, which means that a lot of new viruses will emerge through this evolutionary pressure. It's possible that we are also starting the same race as with antibiotics. Which is still better than people dying from these tiny evil viruses
That's not really how it works, First, vaccines prevent infection in the first place so the virus never has a chance to replicate and mutate, unlike antibiotics which are given after infection and there are a massive number of bacteria and only the most resistant survive. Second, there isn't anything about vaccine acquired immunity thats different from infection acquired immunity, so any evolutionary pressure would already be there.
Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
#148Prepare to read the headline "mRNA vaccine trial for " a lot in the future. My guess is that they are going to produce mRNA versions of basically any vaccine (and then some) in the future. The nice thing about the technology seems to be that you only need to exchange the mRNA payload while the surrounding delivery method can be reused. That makes it not only a fast method to create a vaccine but a very convenient way…
The biggest investment that Pfizer made was the creation of a way to reliably manufacture mRNA vaccines. Now they must recoup those investments.
Pfizer... didn't these guys tried unauthorized Trovan on children in Nigeria during a meningitis epidemic?
Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Amazing technology. What I cannot understand is how can a foreign mRNA be injected so efficiently into host's cells without all the virus-like methods to be applied? Why should host cells be ready to accept any mRNA from their environment so blindly? Wouldn't it be used by natural selection to create subviral agents which will destroy such naive host cells rather quickly?
The mRNA is hidden inside lipid nano-droplets. These droplets merge with cells and the mRNA gets released into them. From what I understand, pure mRNA would be broken down if it ended up in the interstitium (fluid filled space between cells) without being hidden inside this lipid shell. The sequence is also slightly altered compared to original one to make it more stable and less likely to produce an immune response…
Lipid nanoparticles, and the research done around their ability to serve as transport and safety, are the real technological breakthrough here.
Not to say the mRNA technology isn't amazing, but if we had it but no LNPs, we'd have a whole lot of nothing.
Re: Valneva and Pfizer announce Phase 2 study for Lyme disease vaccine candidate
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was one but it was taken off the market. It's a bit of a sad story because it worked but because of unfounded claims that it had side effects, it lost trust of the public: "In clinical trials involving more than 10,000 people, the vaccine, called LYMErix, was found to confer protective immunity to Borrelia in 76% of adults and 100% of children with only mild or moderate and transient adverse effects. [...] Subs…
Unfounded claims from 100s of people developing imaginary autoimmune disorders? Mind you people are still getting compensated in court for autoimmune disorders arising from the Hep-B vaccine, even though no causal link was found. Just yesterday I had to accompany my sister to the phlebologist, because of severe side-effects from Pfizer, he told us he was seeing troves of patients for similar reasons even though offic…
Yes, it's very easy to see causation when there is only correlation.