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EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

euronews.com

251–260 of 267 posts

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#251

Everybody who ever thought that crypto currencies will not come under this scrutiny was highly delusional. All other governments will follow soon.

Yup. A technology which is mainly used for money laundering, dark-net markets, ransoms, and speculation will certainly attract the attention of government.

Why do people think that? Where do you get your data from?

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how you can call it worse than the status quo. Last week my bank informed me that I passed my ATM limit for the year and it's going to give me a small daily allowance for the rest of the year. And then lied me on the phone that it's a requirement from the central bank. This is neither a joke nor a metaphor - this literally happened to me this month (ING in Romania -they're widely considered the best bank…

I'd like to hear more about such limits. Do they base it on total money withdrawn, or number of withdrawals? If you don't mind, what was the limit approximately? Is it only about cash withdrawals, can you use card and online payments as before?

About 60k eur anually.

It's ironic, but a fair share of my withdrawals were simply because the pandemic made me want to have a cash reserve on hand, in case of emergencies. Plus a used car purchase and some renovations. Very white money, taxes already paid.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to hear more about such limits. Do they base it on total money withdrawn, or number of withdrawals? If you don't mind, what was the limit approximately? Is it only about cash withdrawals, can you use card and online payments as before?

About 60k eur anually. It's ironic, but a fair share of my withdrawals were simply because the pandemic made me want to have a cash reserve on hand, in case of emergencies. Plus a used car purchase and some renovations. Very white money, taxes already paid.

Interesting that there's a limit. That's also probably many times more than I have withdrawn in my whole lifetime.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#254
post #217
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa is obsolete. That's the first point most people miss in these cryptocurrency discussions. Credit cards require you to disclose your secret credentials that allow withdrawals from your account. Cryptocurrency payments do not because they apply math and computer science to the problem. The banking systems are also mostly obsolete because they are usually on an outdated paradigm without a blockchain. Blockchains ar…

They don't have to though - asymmetric authentication has been a thing for decades. The issue with current card transactions is the size of the identifier string - 16 digits isn't enough to do anything particularly useful with that can't be near-instantly brute forced. Chip and pin somewhat improves that, all we need is to completely deprecate the idea of a "16 digit card number" and it opens up a world of possibilit…

The reason chargebacks exist is because of the poor technology.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#255
post #254
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to though - asymmetric authentication has been a thing for decades. The issue with current card transactions is the size of the identifier string - 16 digits isn't enough to do anything particularly useful with that can't be near-instantly brute forced. Chip and pin somewhat improves that, all we need is to completely deprecate the idea of a "16 digit card number" and it opens up a world of possibilit…

The reason chargebacks exist is because of the poor technology.

You do realise that to be useful currency has to interact with the real world at some point?

No amount of cryptocurrency-bro tech is going to help with a DOA washing machine...

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#256
post #148

I've experienced HN to be highly anti-Bitcoin for some reason -- got instantly downvoted for commenting neutrally on it [0]. However, I sort of expected more people on here would sympathize with the Cypherpunk Manifesto [1] and band together against pressures to minimize our privacy. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28114156 [1]: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

One thing that I find hard to sympathize in terms of Cyperpunk Manifesto is that a lot of it seems to do with perceived oppression of government and is written and supported by those who live in a countries with representative democracy.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially since crypto relies on two state monopolies: internet licensed providers and electricity providers. I can cut a tree and trade it around in piece more easily than I can use the internet state-monitored access to ask someone to use the state-monitored energy grid to print me a bitcoin.

Crypto doesn't have to rely on large/detectable draws of electricity, as it can use Proof of Stake instead of Proof of Work. As for internet access, with encryption, it's very hard if not impossible to discriminate on how people use the internet, so the state will have to either choose to ban people from using encryption, or live with crypto.

> As for internet access, with encryption, it's very hard if not impossible to discriminate on how people use the internet, so the state will have to either choose to ban people from using encryption, or live with crypto.

No. As long as "crypto" traffic is identifiable in any way, the state can ban it, encrypted or not. It's unnecessary for them to go through the trouble to decrypt it.

For instance:

1. VPN traffic can be fingerprinted, which is one of the methods the GFW uses to block them. I see no reason something similar can't be done for "crypto."

2. People need to get the software to participate in a "crypto" network. A state can target and taken down legitimate channels for getting that software, and backdoored versions can be distributed through replacement channels.

3. A state can setup nodes in a cypto network and then go after anyone in their jurisdiction who connects to them. Whatever "clever" trick you think you can do to avoid connecting to them (sort of only peering with people you personally know) can be easily defeated (e.g. "well I won't connect to any node in my home country" can be easily defeated by a state that rents VPS's in foreign countries).

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#258
post #254
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to though - asymmetric authentication has been a thing for decades. The issue with current card transactions is the size of the identifier string - 16 digits isn't enough to do anything particularly useful with that can't be near-instantly brute forced. Chip and pin somewhat improves that, all we need is to completely deprecate the idea of a "16 digit card number" and it opens up a world of possibilit…

The reason chargebacks exist is because of the poor technology.

Chargebacks exist because human error and fraud exist. Irrevocable transactions make it easy for people to be left with the choice between taking a loss or having to sue, and a LOT of people prefer to pay slightly more not to have to worry about that.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the same ability to regulate it as they do cash transactions. Which is to say, people will still find workarounds if they really want to take a shot at it, but forget about transacting with legit companies and institutions unless you want the spotlight shone on you.

Adding 1 additional p2p hop to transactions is trivially easy with Bitcoin and readily automatable. With 1 additional hop, you facilitate somebody's purchase of bitcoin and they pay for the services you need in fiat (usually at a discount). Good luck regulating that.

Oh you sweet summer child, tax agencies and financial investigators know the ins and outs about financial triangulations since the dawn of tax fraud. You think they're not going to ask you about it once you're on the spotlight for an audit?

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for virtual items but how would physical items work? The baker has the same issue as you and the flower costs Euros even though the baker might except crypto. I can figure some complex ways but somewhere, because there are not enough people using crypto, it will get exchanged and there you will be caught. In this scenario you are actually doing something illegal; spending money you did not declare to the gov fo…

Gift cards are anonymous bridges between the fiat and crypto world. Anyone can buy a $1000 Amazon gift card or 1000+ other gift cards instantly with no KYC. Currently, buying gift cards using the lightning network is faster than buying gift cards directly from merchants and there is no way Amazon or any other merchant can win the speed race using the traditional financial network.

What reality are you living in? Gift card purchases are _extremely_ scrutinized for fraud and everyone and their mother is skeptical of large purchases for gift cards precisely because they're an extremely common vehicle for fraud.
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