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The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

blog.emacsen.net

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Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#71

Post by m4rtink »

CyberRabbi wrote: post #9
neilv wrote: post #3

Like the author, I've tried a ton of open source handheld platforms, and I've recently moved to CalyxOS for my daily driver. (And about to sell a box o' devices to help cost-justify buying a second Pixel for a backup CalyxOS device.) As Android devices go, CalyxOS seems a good choice, if you're willing to not have all the Google service conveniences. I actually found some of the UX smoother than on iPhone, and e-mail…

How are cross-distro Linux app packages looking these days? Not so much the packaging aspect but the sandbox environment they set up to run third-party apps in peace. Is this something librem is working on?

I would expect lots of mobile apps to ship via Flatpak these days.

Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#72

Post by mpol »

cycomanic wrote: post #53

I wonder about SailfishOS, has anyone tried it recently? I used to own a Nokia N9 and it was the best mobile OS I've ever used, but unfortunately the N9 just stopped charging one day. I've always been thinking about trying Sailfish out again, but have not had a phone that was compatible for a while, so am wondering if I should just get a compatible device just to try.

I have been using Saifish as my daily driver and only phone since 2014. I bought a Nokia N9 secondhand in 2013, but the battery was not great anymore and I could not use Whatsapp on it. The choice for Sailfish was then easy. For 5 years I used the Jolla 1, which has received updates from 2013 to 2020. Since 2019 I am on a Sony XA2. I bought it secondhand and after a commercial license for Android app support it still felt very affordable to me. I you would want to start now, the Sony Xperia 10II might be the best choice with Oled screen and Aarch64 support.

Sailfish is being made by a small company with not that many developers, which means there are rough edges compared to Apple and Google. They can spend many millions on their software. I am very happy with Sailfish updates though and also very happy with using it.

The only Android apps I use are Firefox in its last v68 incarnation, and also Whatsapp. I'm lucky not to be tied in too much with all kinds of services :) For many services there are native apps.

And yes, it is not fully open source, which is a pity. The current investor sees no business opportunity in that, but to be real, without that investor, Jolla and Sailfish would not exist anymore. They are mostly a B2B company now, B2C has commercially failed around 2015. I do hear sometimes that more people are using Sailfish, but I haven't seen real statistics. There is also the Nemo project, which started with reimplementing the closed bits in Sailfish, and later deviated somewhat. If Sailfish gets more succesful, that is always still an option to force their hand, but I do feel the time is not right. I do have to say that the Linux community can be very critical towards its own community, sometimes getting to be toxic.

I would be open for a Pinephone, but it is mostly regarded as a developer phone right now. I will wait for Pinephone2 and hope things improve to make it more a daily driver. The Librem 5 is priced out of my league, though I do admire what they are doing.

Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#73

Post by jcelerier »

Apocryphon wrote: post #67
jcelerier wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I used my Jolla phone for 5 years and I still regret it to this day

Ha, why?

the native apps were so fast, everything happened instantly. Also the UI looked gorgeous. In contrast my current oneplus 8 pro feels like a complete regression on the software side.

Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#74

Post by spdl »

kgarten wrote: post #26

Switched to GrapheneOS with the Pixel 5. Email/Calendar integration works fine (K-9 Mail). Signal as instant messenger. Organic Maps as Map application. Replaced Apple Watch with GadgetBridge and a Mi 6 band (cheaper and I have easy access to all data, you need to sync once with their app after you get the key you can delete it ... did the setup on the iphone and copied out the key with a commandline python script fr…

I started using GrapheneOS today and was able to install the official Google Camera app through Aurora store (the only good camera app for pixels imho).

As akc3n suggested in their comment, the installable sandboxed google play services fixes some of the compatibility issues that Graphene has had up till now.

Obviously it's a tradeoff I'm making between privacy and a great camera, but I'm not logged into my google account anywhere and I denied location permissions to the camera.

Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#75

Post by mpol »

mpol wrote: post #72
cycomanic wrote: post #53

I wonder about SailfishOS, has anyone tried it recently? I used to own a Nokia N9 and it was the best mobile OS I've ever used, but unfortunately the N9 just stopped charging one day. I've always been thinking about trying Sailfish out again, but have not had a phone that was compatible for a while, so am wondering if I should just get a compatible device just to try.

I have been using Saifish as my daily driver and only phone since 2014. I bought a Nokia N9 secondhand in 2013, but the battery was not great anymore and I could not use Whatsapp on it. The choice for Sailfish was then easy. For 5 years I used the Jolla 1, which has received updates from 2013 to 2020. Since 2019 I am on a Sony XA2. I bought it secondhand and after a commercial license for Android app support it still…

To add something, I very much adore the Ambience system. I very much prefer a 100% white on black system, and Sailfish Ambiences can do just that. Some Android apps don't really follow, but they sometimes have a darkmode setting.

I just want my phone to stay out of my way, and not jumping up and down :)

Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#76

Post by cycomanic »

mpol wrote: post #72
cycomanic wrote: post #53

I wonder about SailfishOS, has anyone tried it recently? I used to own a Nokia N9 and it was the best mobile OS I've ever used, but unfortunately the N9 just stopped charging one day. I've always been thinking about trying Sailfish out again, but have not had a phone that was compatible for a while, so am wondering if I should just get a compatible device just to try.

I have been using Saifish as my daily driver and only phone since 2014. I bought a Nokia N9 secondhand in 2013, but the battery was not great anymore and I could not use Whatsapp on it. The choice for Sailfish was then easy. For 5 years I used the Jolla 1, which has received updates from 2013 to 2020. Since 2019 I am on a Sony XA2. I bought it secondhand and after a commercial license for Android app support it still…

Thanks for sharing. I've been eyeing a fairphone 3+ for a while, and I remembered discussions around sailfish on the FP2, but it seems the FP3+ is not compatible. I'll have a look at the Sony Xperia.

Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#77

Post by mpol »

emacsen wrote: post #25

Author here. Feel free to ask any questions.

Hi, thank you for this article :)

I would have enjoyed a more thorough write-up of Pinephone and a few popular Linux-distro's and how far they get in regards to a daily driver for you. What I do miss is that both phones are still mostly labeled as developer phones. I read another comment where you made a point about urgency, but I still think you might be expecting too much here :)

Also, I would be interested in a good review of Sailfish and Ubuntu Ports. Sailfish on a recent Sony Xperia, like the 10II, and Ubuntu on a device that is listed as good support for a daily driver.

I hear different things of Ubuntu ports, but I think testing it on a Pinephone might do it short. I wonder what device people use for UB when using it as a daily driver. That might give a more usable device than the Pinephone. Though it will have its limits as well.

Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#78

Post by kgarten »

spdl wrote: post #74
kgarten wrote: post #26

Switched to GrapheneOS with the Pixel 5. Email/Calendar integration works fine (K-9 Mail). Signal as instant messenger. Organic Maps as Map application. Replaced Apple Watch with GadgetBridge and a Mi 6 band (cheaper and I have easy access to all data, you need to sync once with their app after you get the key you can delete it ... did the setup on the iphone and copied out the key with a commandline python script fr…

I started using GrapheneOS today and was able to install the official Google Camera app through Aurora store (the only good camera app for pixels imho). As akc3n suggested in their comment, the installable sandboxed google play services fixes some of the compatibility issues that Graphene has had up till now. Obviously it's a tradeoff I'm making between privacy and a great camera, but I'm not logged into my google ac…

thanks a lot! ... it's a bit of a compromise. Yet, it works perfectly.

Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#79

Post by mpol »

cycomanic wrote: post #76
mpol wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using Saifish as my daily driver and only phone since 2014. I bought a Nokia N9 secondhand in 2013, but the battery was not great anymore and I could not use Whatsapp on it. The choice for Sailfish was then easy. For 5 years I used the Jolla 1, which has received updates from 2013 to 2020. Since 2019 I am on a Sony XA2. I bought it secondhand and after a commercial license for Android app support it still…

Thanks for sharing. I've been eyeing a fairphone 3+ for a while, and I remembered discussions around sailfish on the FP2, but it seems the FP3+ is not compatible. I'll have a look at the Sony Xperia.

For the FP2 and FP3 there are community ports. I think the FP3 port is in relatively good condition. Main drawback currently is that there is no Android layer available for community ports. There are plans at Jolla to bring Android support to community devices, but you can imagine that the expectations by users are hard to manage here :) Community ports are not supported by Jolla itself.

Re: The Search for a Free/Open Source Mobile Operating System

#80

Post by ignoramous »

jraph wrote: post #37
circularfoyers wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the appeal for CalyxOS is attempting to bring more convenience with privacy, where apps you've mentioned are already installed. A major difference is the inclusion of microG, which means you have more freedom to use apps you have no alternative to (e.g. government apps, banking apps, etc). I'm aware of the LineageOS for microG project, however apart from the aforementioned preinstalled set of apps, CalyxOS…

Beware of Signal: it depends on the proprietary Google Play Services library, so even if you don't have the Play Services on your phone, the app is built with the "client-side" code which speaks with it (or with microG) and checks for its presence. FreeSignal was a project that aimed to remove this dependency completely but was stopped by the main developer of Signal. It is possible to clone Signal's repo and do this…

> Beware of Signal: it depends on the proprietary Google Play Services library, so even if you don't have the Play Services on your phone, the app is built with the "client-side" code which speaks with it (or with microG) and checks for its presence.

That exposes client information to Google but not content. Besides, if my understanding is right, The Signal Protocol is non-repudiable, which means there's no way for an external party to conclusively prove if the communication did indeed take place.

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