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EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

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Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#201

Post by swiley »

secondaryacct wrote: post #197
CarelessExpert wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The crypto world is running out of safe havens. So just to be clear, your definition of "safe haven" is, what, total lawlessness with no governmental oversight? Frankly, these moves make me think people are taking crypto seriously now, as we're finally treating it like real money or the banking sector and regulating it accordingly. If anything, it seems to me that should be a sign of success , not failure. (and I s…

But since it provides no advantage over normal currency, except lack of regulation, regulating crypto removes the incentive to onboard on it anyway. It's slower, it expensive to run, fees are very flexible, value depends only on speculation and electricity spending - it would be a success if crypto trends towards 0 and we can finally try to USE them, but again, it would most likely be suboptimal compared to a banknot…

Lack of regulation wasn’t ever even the primary advantage. That you don’t have to depend on a single payment handler is what makes crypto interesting.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#202

Post by pcthrowaway »

jacobr1 wrote: post #17
frankbreetz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

El Salvador is trying to use it a currency. Well, I still wouldn't consider it a currency since pretty much everything will be priced in dollars, but they are using to transfer value. One of the man reasons for this was to send home remittances. Many people still believe Bitcoin could at least be used to transfer value, like a currency. AMC, Starbucks, and United Wholesale Mortgage are all looking into accepting it.…

My understanding is that they are trying to use the Lightning Network. Though my brief googling of this only shows speculation that this is the case, rather than confirmation.

Lightning Network is an abomination. The company behind it, Blockstream, actively suppressed the movement to increase the block size, which led to the bitcoin cash fork.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#203

Post by ls15 »

qnsi wrote: post #7

I understand anti-EU sentiment, but who uses bitcoin for something different than transfering illegal funds and speculation? I understand Ethereum and other smart contract cryptocurcies, but time when people believed Bitcoin is going to become currency are long gone

> who uses bitcoin for something different than transfering illegal funds and speculation?

A couple of months ago, a combination of Covid-related travel restrictions and new EU KYC regulation lead me into a situation where the only way to renew my VPN in a timely manner was through crypto. I was really lucky to have some.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#204

Post by mech422 »

quickthrowman wrote: post #164
mech422 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is generally considered a 'store of value' rather then a day to day 'currency'... Sorta like a savings bond vs a credit card And a few years back, before the transaction fees got so high - there were a few places that took it. NewEgg comes to mind.

BTC is not like a bond at all. A bond is a collection of future cash flows (coupon payments) and a principle payment at the end (or for savings bonds/t-bills, you are buying one future payment for a discount). BTC has no intrinsic value or cash flows or earnings or assets or..

simple analogy was simple..

Would you prefer comparing it to gold ? Art ? collecting sneakers ? or Comic books ? how about buying land ?

Edit: I should probably clarify..People buy/collect lots of things in the _HOPE_ they'll increase in value. BTC and crypto in general is not unique in that regard.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#205

Post by mech422 »

lottin wrote: post #61
mech422 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is generally considered a 'store of value' rather then a day to day 'currency'... Sorta like a savings bond vs a credit card And a few years back, before the transaction fees got so high - there were a few places that took it. NewEgg comes to mind.

It's marketed as a store of value. The fact is value can't be stored reliably anywhere. And storing it in a purely imaginary asset, of all things, seems about the dumbest idea.

No different then 'collecting' funko pops, spoons, sneakers, comic books, and a host of other things and hoping they increase in value.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#206

Post by mech422 »

acdha wrote: post #126
dale_glass wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not really. BTC was sort of usable as a currency to a point. You could even buy games on Steam with it. But it had a 1MB block size limit, which was initially implemented to prevent spam. This was obstinately kept in place, and that quickly destroyed its usefulness as a currency -- since now there's a lot of contention, transacting is slow and expensive. This doesn't bother the people who want an asset to buy o…

It was technically possible but nobody seriously did it because the transactions were very slow and fees were massive compared to everything else, not to mention that the deflationary design meant that anyone who did would be mocked for not having held on until the value went up. Remember all of those comments about people buying a pizza with what a few years later would have been thousands of dollars? That sealed it…

>>the transactions were very slow and fees were massive compared to everything else

I gotta admit, this is my biggest issue with crypto. So far, it's just too slow/expensive to be attractive to me as a day to day tool.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#207

Post by tluyben2 »

vimy wrote: post #194
ethbr0 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's going to exchange euro for crypto, if all European banks are prohibited from touching it?

People can just buy what they want with crypto instead of exchanging it for euro or dollar.

Maybe for virtual items but how would physical items work? The baker has the same issue as you and the flower costs Euros even though the baker might except crypto.

I can figure some complex ways but somewhere, because there are not enough people using crypto, it will get exchanged and there you will be caught. In this scenario you are actually doing something illegal; spending money you did not declare to the gov for KYC/AML, so you can still be traced via the baker who exchanged your payment to euros. And if you used Monero or whatever, you are now an actual criminal trying to hide their tracks.

There would need to be a very large crowd accepting crypto for the crypto sake, not for the USD value to get anywhere here. Which is the dream of all the fans but this is not even close where crypto is currently and most govs are taking steps to prevent it getting there.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#208

Post by lionhead »

xtracto wrote: post #106
burnished wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you elaborate? I'm ignorant. From my perspective it seems like the value of bitcoin changes too much, having risen sharply in value recently, to spend as currency, but I'm also assuming that there are other more stable options. What kind of things do you buy, and how often? What sort of things do you do considering that the value might sky-rocket or dive overnight?

> I'm ignorant. From my perspective it seems like the value of bitcoin changes too much, The value of Bitcoin fluctuates UP and DOWN too much *when compared to the US Dollar*. But compared say, to the Mexican Peso or say (more extremely) Venezuelan Peso, it has gone steadily up. So for us who don't live in a place with a sufficiently stable central bank and a trustful government, Cryptocurrencies are one avenue to sa…

If what you are saying is true, then there is a huge arbitrage opportunity there, unless there are sufficient transaction costs or legal deterrents involved.

If the value of bitcoin relative to MXN is steadily going up (meaning that MXN is losing value relative to USD), then it automatically mean that the value of MXN is also steadily losing value relative to USD. So at the end, from a "value" point of view, nothing will change for you because both currencies are "pegged" to USD. If parity doesn't hold, there is an arbitrage opportunity there; suppose

1 USD = 2 BTC 1 USD = 4 MXN

The implied exchange rate MXNUSD would be BTC = 2 MXN. But imagine as you say that for some reason, this doesn't hold, and actually 1 BTC = 5 MXN in Mexico. I have then an incentive to buy 1 BTC at 0.5 USD, use that 1 BTC to buy 5 MXN, and sell all that MXN at the original rate of 0.25 USD, earning 1.25 USD.

I can understand that it may be easier to physically hold BTC as opposed to fiat USD in that situation, but I don't get the value store proposition. Anyone saying that they see Bitcoin as a store value, are implying they believe that in the future, some people will want to pay for 1 Bitcoin the same amount (or higher than) it's currently worth. It's a perfectly valid claim to make, but what is this belief based on?

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#209

Post by lamp987 »

mech422 wrote: post #206
acdha wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was technically possible but nobody seriously did it because the transactions were very slow and fees were massive compared to everything else, not to mention that the deflationary design meant that anyone who did would be mocked for not having held on until the value went up. Remember all of those comments about people buying a pizza with what a few years later would have been thousands of dollars? That sealed it…

>>the transactions were very slow and fees were massive compared to everything else I gotta admit, this is my biggest issue with crypto. So far, it's just too slow/expensive to be attractive to me as a day to day tool.

*Bitcoin. Transactions on Fantom for example take couple seconds and cost less than a USD cent. Similarly Nano, AVAX, Cardano and many others.

Cryptocurrencies are area of hot research and it innovates fast. Bitcoin was just first (and least capable).

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#210

Post by lamp987 »

ajay-b wrote: post #112

Does this not defeat the whole purpose of cryptocurrency? The fact that a government can control its transparency, anonymity, the “currency” is now just a digital object, like any other in a bartering system. I don’t like that a government can trace and identify payment. Perhaps that is nihilistic but it speaks for me to the heart of freedom.

If you dont want it to be transparent, you use Monero. Its now even getting atomic swaps with Bitcoin.
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