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Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

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Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#91

Post by tptacek »

ulisesroche wrote: post #87
tptacek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most everyone on HN is going to agree with what you are saying: that there is a reasonable narrative in which "EJ" is unable to return to her home due to fear. As a recent victim of a comparatively pathetic "violent" crime: that is absolutely something you are concerned about. And that's before we even get to the topic of "can EJ repair the damage done to her home without diminishing the expected return from a settle…

We can go on forever about possible interpretations, but all those quotations are making you look bad. What proof do you have that EJ is "EJ", and that Troy is "Troy" and that this is a "conspiracy" and were an "angry mob of white knights"?

Angry mob of white knights? Are you sure you're replying to the right comment?

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#92

Post by StrawberryFrog »

tptacek wrote: post #79
jsavimbi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In both cases the tweakers were local, which is scary all in itself. I think it's safe to say that having those people in your community and them knowing who you are and where you live and possibly having a key to your home has to be very intimidating. Which brings up one of my favorite subjects: tweaker behavior. Now that we have a second story we can start to abstract patterns out of what is going on, which to me a…

If she hasn't had the locks changed by now, everyone in her locale that has spoken to her about the incident has done her a disservice. Changing the locks after a breakin is pro forma. She might even be required to do so by her homeowner's insurance.

> If she hasn't had the locks changed by now,

She did. I don't see why you need to speculate on that point; in her first blog post that brought this whole mess to our attention, she said "Although I had the locks changed" ...

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#93

Post by moonlighter »

gojomo wrote: post #57
tokenadult wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim is they're a craigslist where you don't get to find out who the other person is until after the payment processing, which would seem to most people to be negative value. Exactly this. The first blogger to go public with a report of a place being trashed by an Airbnb guest pointed out that with Craigslist, it is EASIER to contact the guest individually beforehand. Airbnb subtracts value from the typical tran…

Paradoxically, these incidents could solidify AirBnb's lead. If they've been clumsy in the past; they can't afford to anymore. They have the money to implement a leading solution, and they have to become synonymous with the best protections to get the most listings/searches. And, the components of a potential solution – costly one-time background checks, longer reputation histories, insurance pooling, deep experience…

"costly one-time background checks" and "all benefit from scale" sound like an oxymoron to me. Implementing all the suggestions you listed would significantly cut into their revenues and make their business model obsolete.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#94

Post by angryasian »

tptacek wrote: post #62
angryasian wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made this point again.. as carr did in a recent article. All of you need to stop vilifying these people coming forward. She did nothing wrong except to believe all the hype of how great it is to rent out your living space to a complete strangers. Her only mistake was believing all this hype of disruption without understanding that there are reasons why hotels, and investment properties have certain laws and insuran…

You're the one drawing the lines here, not 'cletus. The comment you're responding to goes out of its way to attribute possible fault to Airbnb and is comparatively ginger about what "EJ" (or, far more likely, the legal representation "EJ" has almost certainly acquired by now) may be doing tactically. I don't have a strong opinion about this story, except that the "red team / blue team" mentality commenters have about…

i don't understand what else to her story really needs to be said, unless it was orchestrated (if thats what you're implying). All that matters is she used the service and her house got trashed. Airbnb never had a safety page until her story and never made people aware of the dangers. People need to be educated of what can happen when you let strangers into your house, when using a service like this.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#95

Post by philwelch »

Mz wrote: post #74
pnathan wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm given to understand that couchsurfing usually occurs when the host is present, which IMO is a risk-mitigating behavior.

I have not really been following any of this all that closely (though it's been impossible to miss entirely on HN), but my general understanding is that AirBnB originally was going to do a paid version of that and then, for some reason, decided it would be okay for people to not be present.

The host was physically present at both of my Airbnb stays.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#96

Post by jsavimbi »

code_duck wrote: post #48
_delirium wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Might have even been the same meth c[r]ooks. That's what I thought as well (both are SF Bay Area), though it's only a guess. The combination of meth-heads and identity theft seems weird to be repeated. I would even tentatively guess at the meth-heads trashing apts being a cover for someone else who got the idea of using AirBnB to acquire documents for an identity-theft ring, but who knows, it's possible there are a…

If you were gathering documents for an identity theft ring, would you go on a juvenile and pointless rampage in the houses you pilfered? Probably not, since that would only tip off the person being targeted to lock their credit. This is absolutely small time amateur shenanigans. Imagine how the whole deal sounds from the angle of a drug addicted person who is comfortable committing petty/medium property crimes to fun…

> would you go on a juvenile and pointless rampage in the houses you pilfered?

Maybe EJ didn't have much in the way of credit to her name so they just trashed the place. It's what jerks do anyways when they either empowered or unsupervised.

Although I don't think that an identity theft ring would be able to generate enough cash using Airbnb's hosts, a small scale noobish operation could certainly gain some traction and maybe the people who've actually had their identity stolen don't know about it because nobody bothered to trash their apartment. So maybe the jerk who kicked EJ's toilet to death actually did everyone a favor and brought this out into the open.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#97

Post by tptacek »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #88
tptacek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it might depend on Airbnb offering to pay for physical damages and "EJ" holding out for tort-level compensation.

Or perhaps, as in the case of the person in this story, the only help they offered was free nights in airbnb locations. It's easy to imagine she wouldn't accept more of a product she no longer trusts when what she's looking for is security. In the end, the only guideline we have for what they may have offered her is what they offered this person in a similar case.

Maybe. I don't think free Airbnb nights is a good idea to compensate this person. Regardless of their technical liability, Airbnb should make "EJ" whole with respect to her property and the costs she's endured as a result of being estranged from that property. It's hard to believe the total dollar amount for that could be worse than the PR.

But nobody knows exactly what's transpired here except for "EJ" and Airbnb.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#98

Post by tptacek »

StrawberryFrog wrote: post #92
tptacek wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she hasn't had the locks changed by now, everyone in her locale that has spoken to her about the incident has done her a disservice. Changing the locks after a breakin is pro forma. She might even be required to do so by her homeowner's insurance.

> If she hasn't had the locks changed by now, She did. I don't see why you need to speculate on that point; in her first blog post that brought this whole mess to our attention, she said "Although I had the locks changed" ...

I think you meant to say this to the parent comment, which suggested "EJ" might be scared because the thieves still had her keys.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#99

Post by Mz »

philwelch wrote: post #95
Mz wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not really been following any of this all that closely (though it's been impossible to miss entirely on HN), but my general understanding is that AirBnB originally was going to do a paid version of that and then, for some reason, decided it would be okay for people to not be present.

The host was physically present at both of my Airbnb stays.

They can be but are not required to be. That is the distinction I am trying to make: My understanding is that the initial policy was the host was required to be present and then they changed it. And it seems to me the stories we are seeing here are cases where the host was not present.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#100

Post by tptacek »

angryasian wrote: post #94
tptacek wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the one drawing the lines here, not 'cletus. The comment you're responding to goes out of its way to attribute possible fault to Airbnb and is comparatively ginger about what "EJ" (or, far more likely, the legal representation "EJ" has almost certainly acquired by now) may be doing tactically. I don't have a strong opinion about this story, except that the "red team / blue team" mentality commenters have about…

i don't understand what else to her story really needs to be said, unless it was orchestrated (if thats what you're implying). All that matters is she used the service and her house got trashed. Airbnb never had a safety page until her story and never made people aware of the dangers. People need to be educated of what can happen when you let strangers into your house, when using a service like this.

"Orchestrated"? What? No. The idea that this is all some diabolical plot to bring down Airbnb is silly. It's just as toxic as the worst assumptions being made about Airbnb, just in the opposite direction.

I don't know what "all that matters" means. There are whole huge threads on HN about this that clearly aren't premised on the idea that "all that matters" is that her house got trashed.

Please don't assume that I'm on "team blue" just because I say something that doesn't fit "team red"'s interpretation of events.

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