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Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

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Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#71

Post by hnal943 »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #59
hnal943 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also shocked that EJ did not avail herself of it.

I'm not sure that a standard homeowner's insurance policy would pay out in a case such as this. Airbnb is putting hosts in the position of a business; one of the services they could (and should) be providing is some form of insurance (for an added fee, of course.)

Just because homeowner's insurance doesn't provide this type of coverage doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It may be a good idea for Airbnb to attempt to provide this type of coverage. However, whether they offer insurance or not does not change the fact that the risk is the host's to mitigate.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#72

Post by farrel »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #54
[deleted] wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

It doesn't matter that Airbnb renters are not businesses. There are a number of ways in which this reduces to an insurance problem. First, Airbnb could purchase liability insurance to indemnify themselves against claims made by people like EJ. This would enable them, under certain circumstances, to make generous payouts on occasion while maintaining fixed expenses. Second, Airbnb could easily offer optional insurance…

"There are a number of ways in which this reduces to an insurance problem."

You can't get insurance for an illegal activity.

If you're subletting your own rental apartment, or in a jurisdiction with laws against unlicensed short term rentals (like New York City no doubt one of Airbnb's biggest markets) renting out via Airbnb is most probably illegal and no insurance company on the planet will cover it.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#73

Post by pnathan »

benatkin wrote: post #19

Just in case anyone's curious, CouchSurfing has been around a bit longer than AirBnb and they have their own safety tips and tools: http://www.couchsurfing.org/safety.html Here's the AirBnb page about safety: http://www.airbnb.com/home/safety CouchSurfing is similar in that it's about strangers staying at people's places. The biggest difference is that people let others stay at their houses for free. Usually both par…

I'm given to understand that couchsurfing usually occurs when the host is present, which IMO is a risk-mitigating behavior.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#74

Post by Mz »

pnathan wrote: post #73
benatkin wrote: post #19

Just in case anyone's curious, CouchSurfing has been around a bit longer than AirBnb and they have their own safety tips and tools: http://www.couchsurfing.org/safety.html Here's the AirBnb page about safety: http://www.airbnb.com/home/safety CouchSurfing is similar in that it's about strangers staying at people's places. The biggest difference is that people let others stay at their houses for free. Usually both par…

I'm given to understand that couchsurfing usually occurs when the host is present, which IMO is a risk-mitigating behavior.

I have not really been following any of this all that closely (though it's been impossible to miss entirely on HN), but my general understanding is that AirBnB originally was going to do a paid version of that and then, for some reason, decided it would be okay for people to not be present.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#75

Post by sorbus »

timr wrote: post #56
cletus wrote: post #18

As much as some people might view this as "sometimes things go wrong", which is basically true, that's not the whole story. The story here is that people are doing things that in most jurisdictions are illegal. AirBnB is profiting off this. Do something illegal and you can't insure against any negative consequences. The whole EJ situation is a potential inflection point. Without knowing the full facts (which no one s…

"But there's something "off" about EJ's position here. Why is a vandalized apartment leaving her homeless?" Put yourself in the position of a person who has just had their apartment burglarized (remember: they stole her personal documents and valuables) and their keys stolen by probable drug addicts. Also, remember that the police have arrested one of the vandals, but probably not all of them. Ignoring, for the momen…

So then why isn't she going to accept one of the offers of help, which might have included a place to stay for a while? It's perfectly understandable that she doesn't want to be in her apartment, but she seems to want us to believe that she has to choose between being there and being homeless. That's just silly - at the very least, there are hotels, and I suspect that if she put up a donation button on her blog she would get more than enough for that.

I'm not saying that it's sketchy, just that it makes her seem like a very irrational actor. Which could be completely believable - maybe she's gotten a bit paranoid, or is having issues trusting people, both of which would be perfectly understandable - but when combined with the conflicting stories and lack of definite information (and all the conflicting information out there), it seems odd.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#76

Post by farrel »

acgourley wrote: post #64
waterlesscloud wrote: post #5

I'm realizing I'm confused about what value airbnb is offering. If they don't vet people on either end, are they really just a craigslist with payment processing?

By building a market for buyers and sellers of otherwise unused low marginal cost assets they are clearly creating value. You can argue that by not vetting they invite random disaster which may be more expensive than the cost of the vetting itself. But you can't say they are not creating value overall.

This is most certainly what they're not doing. Airbnb has promoted the idea that you can rent out your primary residence to make money.

A quote from http://www.airbnb.com/rooms/new - "Airbnb lets you make money renting out your place. Your apartment will pay for itself!"

That is the antithesis of a 'unused low marginal cost asset'.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#77

Post by pseudonym »

code_duck wrote: post #53

AirBnB never should have set up such an unsafe system, but surely the decisions of the renters are at fault as well. I personally would never even consider allowing people who were not carefully screened by myself to have free reign with my property. I'm pretty sure this is getting large enough to garner the attention of politicians. That may be a positive thing, since AirBnB and their clients are apparently not taki…

Given that most apartments already have no subletting clauses, I don't think additional regulation would help anything. I'm hoping this dies down before some politician tries to make some knee-jerk law, much like that state AG did with craigslist awhile back.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#78

Post by [deleted] »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #54
[deleted] wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

It doesn't matter that Airbnb renters are not businesses. There are a number of ways in which this reduces to an insurance problem. First, Airbnb could purchase liability insurance to indemnify themselves against claims made by people like EJ. This would enable them, under certain circumstances, to make generous payouts on occasion while maintaining fixed expenses. Second, Airbnb could easily offer optional insurance…

[deleted]

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#79

Post by tptacek »

jsavimbi wrote: post #70
masklinn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is a vandalized apartment leaving her homeless? I would guess the vandalization of her flat leads her to not feeling "safe" there anymore, and thus not being able to live there.

In both cases the tweakers were local, which is scary all in itself. I think it's safe to say that having those people in your community and them knowing who you are and where you live and possibly having a key to your home has to be very intimidating. Which brings up one of my favorite subjects: tweaker behavior. Now that we have a second story we can start to abstract patterns out of what is going on, which to me a…

If she hasn't had the locks changed by now, everyone in her locale that has spoken to her about the incident has done her a disservice. Changing the locks after a breakin is pro forma. She might even be required to do so by her homeowner's insurance.

Re: Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere”

#80

Post by ig1 »

mgkimsal wrote: post #65
ig1 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This already happens on classified ad sites, people regularly go into strangers homes to purchase a wide range of goods with close to zero pre-checks. And yes people do get killed when they turn up at someone's house with 5k in cash to buy a car. Doesn't seem to have stopped the classified business from working...

While you're right, it hasn't stopped them, "classifieds" have largely been eroded by things like Craigslist, which do allow you to do a bit of research and contact on your own. They don't prevent it. And I typically am not paying for the privilege of meeting my ransacker/assailant. What's more, CL (and others) actively try to scare you with warnings about how not to get scammed and such. ABNB doesn't seem to take th…

Craigslist is a classified site, and it's had it's share or rapes and killings:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=craigslist%20killing

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