Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

xda-developers.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 204 posts

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#61

Post by josephcsible »

JCWasmx86 wrote: post #32
devney wrote: post #24

On the surface this seems blatantly illegal: after the sale is made the no-longer-owner removes functionality. Can someone please explain how this is legally not some sort of theft, or bait-and-switch, or ... something? I read comments about firmware licensing, or Japan's camera noise thing. Those sound like Samsung problems, while disabling a camera sounds like an actionable user problem.

It's probably somewhere deep in the EULA/ToS and furthermore it is shown, while unlocking the bootloader. Whether this is legal or not, is surely an open question.

Imagine if the wrapper for a ream of paper said "by opening this wrapper, you agree to pay us $5 if you print double-sided on any of this paper". That's what EULA/ToS on things I already own feel like.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#62

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

opan wrote: post #41
jankotek wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had run LineageOS for some time. It works, but FDroid is missing too many apps, even opensource like Signal. I have to update apks manually every few months.

This exact issue years ago made me think less of (and stop using) Signal rather than F-Droid. You're better off with XMPP or Matrix, plus an ordinary SMS app.

One has to already bend heaven and earth to bring people who don't care about Privacy from WhatsApp, Messenger to Signal.

Only reason someone is able to do that now is because WhatsApp, Messenger gets into some legal trouble and the media advertises Signal.

Preaching about significance of interoperable protocol and suggesting apps which use them is beyond the capacity of even those media.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#63

Post by dane-pgp »

devney wrote: post #34
JCWasmx86 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably somewhere deep in the EULA/ToS and furthermore it is shown, while unlocking the bootloader. Whether this is legal or not, is surely an open question.

That raises whole other legal questions.... One basic pillar of contract law basically everywhere is that one can not be bound by a contract that they didn't read, even if they signed it. Usually these cases involve coercion or not knowing the language. If nobody can read the EULA because it's 10 pages of densely written legalese, can they even be bound by it? Since BigCo deliberately made their EULA harder to read t…

I can't help thinking that the correct "malicious compliance" strategy for legislators to tackle this is to pass a law that says any time a user is required to agree to an EULA on a device which is capable of playing audio files, the device should have to play an unskippable audio recording of the EULA being spoken out loud by a voice actor, at a normal talking speed.

Adding a 30 minute wait before someone can use your product or your website would ruin the customer experience, and would encourage at least some companies to question which clauses are actually needed.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#64

Post by swiley »

ByteWelder wrote: post #46
anonymousiam wrote: post #16

The new Samsung phones are less attractive for many reasons. A few months ago I upgraded my S8+ to a S20+. I considered the S21+ or Note, but none of those have a microSD slot. I suspect that my next phone will be one of these: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/

A $900 device with low tier hardware specs (720p screen, 32GB eMMC storage, etc.) is not a particularly appealing offer. I understand that the value comes from the security aspect, but I personally don't find that worth a $700 markup.

Comparing specs between Linux and Android is an Apples vs oranges comparison IMO. I think a lot of people are unaware of the huge overhead that Android (and even iOS) has.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#65

Post by wlesieutre »

dbeley wrote: post #51
wlesieutre wrote: post #45

I had an Xperia Z3 Compact from Sony and it had this same restriction. Much of its camera functionality (including de-noising) was DRMed and if you unlocked the bootlader it would delete the keys. No way to restore them.

Unlike the Z Fold 3 it doesn't kill the camera completely, you end up with a lower quality camera without its post-processing features but it's still usable.

Ok yes, it would technically only turn your camera into a potato instead of disabling it completely

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#66

Post by joshuaissac »

hhsbz wrote: post #60
DocTomoe wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Ford would be in serious trouble if it deliberately bricked the entertainment system when you change the oil outside of a dealership.

If you mess with the central electronics of the car I'm sure the car could choose to disable itself and they wouldn't owe you a cent.

They would likely fall afoul of EU right-to-repair laws.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#67

Post by summm »

mithusingh32 wrote: post #21
dcdc123 wrote: post #2

What is up with that site repeatedly expanding the border to cover the edges of text on mobile? Such a toxic design.

XDA has gonna from the go to site for Android related everything. To an ad website. If you don't have a blocker like pihole or something similar, it is unusable on mobile.

Or just use Firefox mobile...

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#68

Post by JCWasmx86 »

hhsbz wrote: post #60
DocTomoe wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Ford would be in serious trouble if it deliberately bricked the entertainment system when you change the oil outside of a dealership.

If you mess with the central electronics of the car I'm sure the car could choose to disable itself and they wouldn't owe you a cent.

There is in my opinion a difference between a car and a phone.

If a car fails, people can die. If a phone fails, it normally doesn't have a huge impact.

If a car disables itself, because the central electronics were messed with by laymans, not some repair shop, it is in my opinion totally okay, as it would otherwise endanger humans.

But for a phone/other non-critical electronics, there is in my opinion no reason why its functionality should be reduced, just because you did something harmless like unlocking the bootloader. (In this case, the camera could still make photos, just without the fancy patented/copyrighted algorithms)

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#69

Post by jeroenhd »

flyinghamster wrote: post #56
arsome wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I refuse to buy any device that requires me to go crying to the manufacturer for an unlock key. Google and OnePlus devices can be unlocked locally with no need to contact anyone and beg, so no one can refuse your unlock on a device you already paid for.

T-Mobile US's LG devices came with unlockable bootloaders as well, but that only helps if someone develops a ROM for it. Even then, more and more important functionality is getting locked behind closed doors. On my Stylo 5, it's not the camera, it's VoLTE. What good is it to run a custom ROM if I can't make and receive phone calls?

For me, personally, a major reason to unlock the bootloader is to install Magisk. Running an entire ROM is nice if you can find a trusted and supported one, but failing that, root access is the next best thing.

I've got background clipboard sync back in KDE Connect through a Magisk module. No need for an entire LineageOS ROM (would be nice if it were officially supported) if everything I want can be done another way.

VoLTE is incredibly fragile. You can often force enable it and it'll just work, but there's so much that can go wrong that I wouldn't risk it.

Re: Samsung kills the cameras on the Galaxy Z Fold 3 if you unlock the bootloader

#70

Post by JeremyNT »

hhsbz wrote: post #57
devney wrote: post #24

On the surface this seems blatantly illegal: after the sale is made the no-longer-owner removes functionality. Can someone please explain how this is legally not some sort of theft, or bait-and-switch, or ... something? I read comments about firmware licensing, or Japan's camera noise thing. Those sound like Samsung problems, while disabling a camera sounds like an actionable user problem.

If you tamper with the device it's your responsibility, innit? It's not like they disabled a properly functioning device that uses the original firmware with an OTA update.

> If you tamper with the device it's your responsibility, innit? It's not like they disabled a properly functioning device that uses the original firmware with an OTA update

And more to the point, Samsung is under no obligation to allow bootloader unlocking at all, much less ensure that it continues to provide any specific set of functionality.

The alternative here isn't "Samsung stops disabling the camera when the bootloader is unlocked," it's "Samsung stops allowing bootloader unlock."

This is always the game with Android phones - you have to do your research to understand whether you can install your own software on them, and what might be lost if you do so. If you don't want a bunch of headaches, just buy a Pixel series straight from Google.

Post reply on HN