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IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

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Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#121

Post by da_big_ghey »

refenestrator wrote: post #29
rootsudo wrote: post #3

Hey, they got that system in place already in China! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System Go to HackerNews, post a dissenting topic, enjoy no travel or credit! Work in a high compliance job where you have to submit financials yearly, no more!

And you can lose your job for posting a controversial opinion in the US, completely privatized. It's a way more stable system. Allow a very narrow band of opinions in practice while claiming that everyone's free to think whatever they want in theory.

it is not removing all option, self-employing can be and also retirees are not subject to any such restrainting. i am in agreement that it is not perfect see no simple solution

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#122

Post by rafale »

devmor wrote: post #83
rafale wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They usually ask you for your income in the credit card application. If you lie, you may be committing credit card fraud.

Hence, the key word "VERIFYING"

It's a high trust process in a high trust society. Assuming that most people are honest, it works out well. Verification bogs down the process and may discourage people from applying. Clever fraudsters can probably pass that anyway.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#123

Post by da_big_ghey »

jdavis703 wrote: post #108
rootsudo wrote: post #3

Hey, they got that system in place already in China! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System Go to HackerNews, post a dissenting topic, enjoy no travel or credit! Work in a high compliance job where you have to submit financials yearly, no more!

In the US people working in national security positions also have to regularly (though not annually) submit financial information too.

and most will get in trouble if they post lot of political hot takes on twitter

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#124

Post by archildress »

dragonwriter wrote: post #111
archildress wrote: post #48

Credit scores are so fundamentally broken anyway. In financial analysis of a company, the number one item you tend to look at is "free cash flow" - the "cash available for the company to repay creditors or pay dividends and interest to investors." [1] Why then do we not take income into account in credit worthiness? Why do I not periodically upload my W2 or tax return to the credit bureaus in order to show that yes,…

> Why then do we not take income into account in credit worthiness? We...do. Any significant credit application will look at your employment history, income, and credit score, not just the latter. > Why do I not periodically upload my W2 or tax return to the credit bureaus in order to show that yes, I'm credit-worthy because my income makes it possible to service my debt? Credit reporting companies do gather and prov…

In reply to your first point, the original article discusses credit score, which does not use income in any way. You're talking about applying for loans, which use a credit score and other factors to determine credit worthiness. My points are relevant to the credit score only.

Consider the fact that conflating credit score to credit worthiness (respectfully, as your reply does) as the biggest indicator of the brokenness.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#125

Post by Mengkudulangsat »

gruez wrote: post #72
Mengkudulangsat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know I've been wondering about that! Can an autonomous bot on some smart contract have a credit score? Why is credit a privilege only humans can enjoy? We should be able to spool up a persistent pseudonym that can have a credit score based solely on its selectively disclosed transaction history since inception. If we screw up the credit score of that pseudonym, we should be able to create another and another. The…

>Can an autonomous bot on some smart contract have a credit score? Why is credit a privilege only humans can enjoy? companies and even countries can have credit scores, so it's not something that "only humans can enjoy". >We should be able to spool up a persistent pseudonym that can have a credit score based solely on its selectively disclosed transaction history since inception. Part of what gives credit scores valu…

The reason I'm keen about pseudonyms is because by detaching real-world identities from credit requirements, we can greatly improve access to finance.

If new pseudonyms are treated with extreme suspicion then so be it, but there should be a way for the pseudonym to progress from there solely through transactional behavior.

Even if the amount of credit the market becomes comfortable with through this scheme is $100, that could make a big difference in developing countries.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#126

Post by archildress »

jdavis703 wrote: post #100
archildress wrote: post #48

Credit scores are so fundamentally broken anyway. In financial analysis of a company, the number one item you tend to look at is "free cash flow" - the "cash available for the company to repay creditors or pay dividends and interest to investors." [1] Why then do we not take income into account in credit worthiness? Why do I not periodically upload my W2 or tax return to the credit bureaus in order to show that yes,…

Income is required for any loan ranging from a personal loan, to a car note to a mortgage. Even renting an apartment requires proof of income! The only loan that doesn’t require proof are student loans, and those are essentially impossible to default on.

Just to be clear, my criticism is of the credit score metric, which I feel is disproportionately depended upon for credit worthiness. A credit score does not take into account income.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#127

Post by minikites »

NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #13

Somehow I have a feeling that each passing day, things are getting tighter and tighter and private corporation and government institutions are getting more controlling and totalitarian. That feeling like slowly being boiled into 1984.

>private corporation and government institutions are getting more controlling and totalitarian

At least I have a voice in government. I don't get a voice when Experian (or Google, or any private company) decides to blacklist me arbitrarily.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#129

Post by archildress »

intended wrote: post #86
archildress wrote: post #48

Credit scores are so fundamentally broken anyway. In financial analysis of a company, the number one item you tend to look at is "free cash flow" - the "cash available for the company to repay creditors or pay dividends and interest to investors." [1] Why then do we not take income into account in credit worthiness? Why do I not periodically upload my W2 or tax return to the credit bureaus in order to show that yes,…

That is apples and oranges. I’m not using an EBITDA/MV equation on my personal valuation, nor am I using FCF for any credit calculation. Credit calculations are based on the most reliable data points that correlate with outcomes I care about. Frankly, new tech is helping credit calculations - people are using phone call data to find what correlates with credit worthiness. I believe this is already in production aroun…

I didn't bring EBITDA into the conversation; free cash flow is a useful metric for both personal finance and corporate finance and isn't comparable. EBITDA is too adjusted to be useful for personal financials.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#130

Post by scohesc »

yorwba wrote: post #38
rootsudo wrote: post #3

Hey, they got that system in place already in China! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System Go to HackerNews, post a dissenting topic, enjoy no travel or credit! Work in a high compliance job where you have to submit financials yearly, no more!

> Hey, they got that system in place already in China! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System From your link: "By 2020,[needs update] it was intended to standardize the assessment of citizens' and businesses' economic and social reputation, or 'Social Credit'." It's 2021 now and the "Social" part of "Social Credit" is still science-fiction, let alone somebody's web history affecting their ability to obtai…

> Xu was sued in 2019 for calling tai chi "grandmaster" Chen Xiaowang a fraud, and the Chinese court ordered him to pay Chen approximately US$60,000 in damages and to apologize for seven consecutive days on social media. Additionally, his social credit rating was lowered to the point where he could not rent, own property, stay in certain hotels, travel on high speed rail or buy plane tickets.[16][17] The restrictions were lifted after he paid US$40,000 in both legal fees and the cost of placing the apology.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Xiaodong

So it's a system that's created by the government to make people aware of unpaid debts, but it's the same government that decides to impose debt on said people whenever it wants.

Coolbeans.

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