Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, calling people nuts is a sure fire way to solve this problem. The “nuts” were also saying covid was coming and was dangerous and were called crazy xenophobes. I’m vehemently pro-vax but there are as many idiots on both sides of this issue as there are non-idiots. Note that I need to disclose that, since the scarlet letter being handed out now has the power to prevent you from being on YouTube and in some places…
> The “nuts” were also saying covid was coming and was dangerous and were called crazy xenophobes. I only ever saw people saying that calling it things like "Wuhan Flu" was xenophobic.
The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
941–950 of 1001 posts
Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
#942Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "even if the vaccine has terrible side effects, we will take care of you as well as we can and as well as you could wish, even if the side effects are exctremely rare" I don’t think this will work, because if it did then people would be taking the vaccine right now . The issue is multi-faceted of course, but the discussion of “extremely rare events” is a red herring and a wink wink to vaccine skepticism. It’s like…
I think the problem is that 1) we don't know the long-term effects 2) There is no FDA approval (although there is now!) and 3) There is no recompense for people hurt by the vaccine - even if that number is 0. 2 & 3 are easily fixable and we should do it now. We don't have hold pharma liable, but we can setup funds for people with side-effects. 1 is an argument from ignorance. There is no long-term data so we can't re…
Of what? Vaccines?
> 2) There is no FDA approval (although there is now!)
Which is just a matter of bureaucracy. The emergency authorization and deployment is a de-facto approval.
> 3) There is no recompense for people hurt by the vaccine - even if that number is 0.
And? There's also no recompense for many things.
> but we can setup funds for people with side-effects.
The problem is that this makes no sense. Why would you set up funds for people with side-effects? What about funds for people who die in car wrecks on the way to get their vaccines or trip and fall down a flight of stairs?
> 1 is an argument from ignorance.
Ain't that the truth. Can you articulate the exact long-term effects that you're worried about or that anybody should be worried about? Why are you (or anybody) concerned about these specific unknown and unknowable long-term effects? What's the likelihood of those effects and how do they compare against the likelihood of contracting and dying from COVID-19?
It's like all of a sudden there's these spooky and mysterious "but what about the long term effects!1!" without any scientific justification. Even if there were potentially long-term effects, those effects are equally likely to be of no-consequence as they are to have us all turned into zombies or something. The search space of "effects" are unknown and have an unknown probability distribution.
The only purpose of talking about "long-term effects" by any pundit or layperson who can't even describe the mechanics of an mRNA vaccine (why not take the JnJ one if you're worried about that anyway?) is to introduce fear, uncertainty, and doubt either out of ignorance or malice.
If you're a virologist, by all means educate us. If not, stop spouting bullshit and hurting people.
Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
#943"The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earli…
“Turning vaccines into a political wedge issue is one of the stupidest things I've seen in my life.” It’s truly maddening. My wife (very on the right) refused to get it and instead talked endlessly about hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, vitamin D. All of which she got from conservative media. Right now she is lying in bed wracked with COVID. Ate up with fever and a cough that sends jolts of panic through me when i hea…
Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
#944Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you get you case in childhood, as most do, then you have immunity through adulthood. Sort of. I got shingles (early 40s) this year. Completely knocked on my ass for a week and maybe 2-3 months to be mostly back to normal. I recommend the shingles vaccine to anyone who will listen.
You were back to normal. Why recommend vaccination?
Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
#945There is lots of competition for the top of the stupidity list. NYC locking down all summer and then 'opening up' in September seemed top of the list to me. It's not that I thought they should have stayed locked down the entire time, its that they should have opened in the summer so they could lock down in the winter if they really needed it. But seriously though, locking down in the summer to only open up in flu sea…
There was never going to be an "easy" way to combat this pandemic, and experts have been quite clear about this from the beginning. A really successful strategy would have required a careful combination of several types of interventions, close monitoring of the situation as well as fast and effective adjustments to policies, and probably also a certain dose of luck.
Germany did a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong (though in certain instances, people might reasonably disagree about which is which), and Germany was also a bit lucky that we had many hospital beds and a social structure that is maybe a bit less conducive to infections (fewer inter-generational households). I think that Germany did well enough to avoid the worst effects of the pandemic (hospitals never got to the situation where they were fully overwhelmed, although it seemed close a few times) due to somehow people getting their shit together at the last minute every time, but I'm certain that a strategy with fewer deaths and less economic damage would have been possible.
The main problem that I see in Germany is that the government (or governments, if we include the regional ones) never had a real plan on what to do. Such a plan doesn't need to be inflexible, it can react to different situations and new scientific evidence, but it still should have been possible to establish some basic principles instead of stumbling through this pandemic almost blindly.
As an effect, we went into (more or less restrictive) lockdowns several times that prevented the worst, but a combination of other measures could have had a better impact: going into stricter, but shorter, lockdowns instead of months of weird "semi-lockdowns" with tons of exceptions (a lot of time was wasted especially last Summer), finding better solutions for schools and universities (such as better tools for remote teaching, and air filters), buying vaccines earlier, forcing employers to allow people to work from home (this was done eventually, but much too late — this was basically only because the industry lobbied hard enough, while at the same time, restaurants and museums had to close down completely), allowing certain lower-risk activities during the lockdown (such as outside terraces for restaurants), etc.
I'm not saying that all of these things would have worked, but we certainly could have tried more (or, in certain cases, earlier).
Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
#946Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Turning vaccines into a political wedge issue is one of the stupidest things I've seen in my life.” It’s truly maddening. My wife (very on the right) refused to get it and instead talked endlessly about hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, vitamin D. All of which she got from conservative media. Right now she is lying in bed wracked with COVID. Ate up with fever and a cough that sends jolts of panic through me when i hea…
Doctors who recommend these medications aren't recommending them in isolation, but in combination. Check out the AAPS Guide to Home-Based COVID Treatment for more info. You have to ask yourself why doctors aren't treating people with covid until they can't breathe.
Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
#947"The transition to endemic COVID-19 is also a psychological one. When everyone has some immunity, a COVID-19 diagnosis becomes as routine as diagnosis of strep or flu—not good news, but not a reason for particular fear or worry or embarrassment either. That means unlearning a year of messaging that said COVID-19 was not just a flu. If the confusion around the CDC dropping mask recommendations for the vaccinated earli…
This informed post is optimistic about covid after it's endemic: https://cspicenter.org/blog/waronscience/why-covid-19-is-her...
Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
#948Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking for the US at least pursuing a covid zero approach now that we have vaccines that are very effective against hospitalization and death just doesn't make sense. You act like doing a "real" lockdown would be trivial but we have already seen that even light lockdowns have had serious side-effects. Its not March 2020 anymore, we have an answer and it is vaccines. Every public policy decision we make going forwar…
Unfortunately, our current vaccines are simply not good enough. Just take a look at the data from Israel and Iceland. From the article, it was clear already from last year. How many other variants do we need, as we let the apply yet another selection pressure with the leaky vaccines? (AY.12 variant is now the dominant variant in Israel).
Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
#949I really hope we take this as a call to put more research into effective and affordable antiviral treatment. Vaccines are great, but there is always a limitation. Better antivirals could save a lot of lives, especially early in a pandemic.
Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever
#950Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "even if the vaccine has terrible side effects, we will take care of you as well as we can and as well as you could wish, even if the side effects are exctremely rare" I don’t think this will work, because if it did then people would be taking the vaccine right now . The issue is multi-faceted of course, but the discussion of “extremely rare events” is a red herring and a wink wink to vaccine skepticism. It’s like…
I think the problem is that 1) we don't know the long-term effects 2) There is no FDA approval (although there is now!) and 3) There is no recompense for people hurt by the vaccine - even if that number is 0. 2 & 3 are easily fixable and we should do it now. We don't have hold pharma liable, but we can setup funds for people with side-effects. 1 is an argument from ignorance. There is no long-term data so we can't re…
There are a couple of government funds, but they rarely pay out. They require you to prove your issues are the result of a vaccine, which is extremely difficult to do. Did this person have a thrombosis because of COVID or because of some other genetic or environmental reason? It's really hard to rule out "everything that isn't the vaccine".