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The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#411

Post by Dwelve »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #314

Tell that headline to the relatives of the dead. "The highest number of confirmed coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths in the Nordic countries as of August 18, 2021, had occurred in Sweden at 14,664. Denmark followed with 2,562 deaths, Finland with 1,008, and Norway with 811." https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coron...

"Tell that headline to the relatives of the dead."

How the hell is saying shit like this allowed on this website?!?! Tell that headline to the relatives of the dead!?? Are you serious?

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#412

Post by Dwelve »

varjag wrote: post #65
lazyjones wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "excess 10k dead"? Sweden basically only reported excess mortality in early 2020 and since then it has a mortality deficit.

Sweden has ~14k official COVID deaths. Neighbouring Norway, at half the population and a moderate lockdown/PPE policy, has ~800 COVID deaths. The culture, climate, population density and demographics are very close. All these extra Swedes died for sheer ineptitude of their government. There's hardly any difference in economic impact either.

Just so we are clear. You're saying that if Covid didn't kill anybody, Sweden would have seen [1] 97k - 14k == 83k deaths in the year of 2020?

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-...

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#413

Post by Dwelve »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #26
adevx wrote: post #19

Add to this that babies born during lockdown have found to have a significant lower IQ. “It’s not subtle by any stretch,” said Deoni. “You don’t typically see things like that, outside of major cognitive disorders.” I think we vastly underestimate the severe long-term effects of lockdowns. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/12/children-born-...

Your link doesn't seem to go anywhere. Also, how accurate are IQ tests on 1 year old and younger babies? I'm not sure why IQs would be lower (if indeed this is the case) - parents are still around. In fact parents have been more often around during the pandemic given the increase in work from home policies.

Why are you people even picking these fights. Are you SERIOUSLY doubting that the past year of isolation and reduced interaction and reduced opportunities for training immune systems will have an impact on infants? Like, is this your actual position?

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#414

Post by op00to »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #285
another_story wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan had only a few weeks of full lockdown last year, and then a few months of softer lockdown during the second outbreak this year. During the recent outbreak it was WFH and takeout from restaurants with certain businesses closed. About 100 days later most things are open again. They resisted a full lockdown and doubled down on contact tracing. Went from 500+ cases a day to just a few now.

Contact Tracing sounds like an Orwellian nightmare.

It’s been done for at least a hundred years, well before Orwell. Nice try though.

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#415

Post by nickthemagicman »

op00to wrote: post #414
nickthemagicman wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contact Tracing sounds like an Orwellian nightmare.

It’s been done for at least a hundred years, well before Orwell. Nice try though.

Not with this level of technology and with this big of scale.

Come to think of it when has contact tracing been done before?

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#416

Post by nickthemagicman »

kybernetikos wrote: post #396
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, it all sounds like an Orwellian nightmare

Actually in terms of Orwellian nightmares, normalizing mask wearing in public is an incredibly significant blow you can strike against the surveillance state.

So comply with the government in order to get our freedoms?

Makes sense....

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#417

Post by thebruce87m »

kenneth wrote: post #359
snowwrestler wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s incredibly easy to trade statistical deaths for statistical happiness. Ask yourself instead if you would be willing to kill yourself and your family if you knew it would make your neighbors happy. Sounds aggressive, I know. But it’s a solid way to illustrate that there are real people behind statistics. If 10x more people die, “everyone” is not going to have 2 years of a non-miserable life. The people who lose t…

Actually, I do trade the statistical risk of killing myself for some statistically greater benefit pretty much every single day and every action I take, from driving a car, to traveling for work, to any number of recreational activities like surfing or skiing. Your argument is the precise fallacy I'm arguing against — risks and benefits should be quantified and weighed. The fact that it takes 50 man-months of quarant…

“… each life cut short by 10 years on average”

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/news/1.5-million-...

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#418

Post by thebruce87m »

mikem170 wrote: post #312
galaxyLogic wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for pointing that out: 10x. An order of magnitude difference in deaths. Plus, it just makes common-sense that if people cannot meet other people, that prevents the spread of the disease. No? That makes common sense, and then we see 10x difference in deaths. The Occam's razor explanation for the reason of 10x bigger death rate then is .. lack of lockdown! Anybody arguing otherwise seems suspect of political…

That would make sense, except for the countries that did lock down and did worse. It would help a lot to have a satisfactory explanation for that, too. Geography by itself is not enough to eliminate the doubt sown by that contradiction.

Timing.

I sat in the UK for weeks looking at what was happening in Italy and wondering why we weren’t doing anything at all.

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#419

Post by UncleOxidant »

Dwelve wrote: post #413
UncleOxidant wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link doesn't seem to go anywhere. Also, how accurate are IQ tests on 1 year old and younger babies? I'm not sure why IQs would be lower (if indeed this is the case) - parents are still around. In fact parents have been more often around during the pandemic given the increase in work from home policies.

Why are you people even picking these fights. Are you SERIOUSLY doubting that the past year of isolation and reduced interaction and reduced opportunities for training immune systems will have an impact on infants? Like, is this your actual position?

Older kids, yes. There will be effects. Infants? Probably the least impacted group.

Re: The Sweden experiment: how no lockdowns led to mental health, healthier economy

#420

Post by anigbrowl »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #323
kenneth wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd happily trade a 10x higher death rate (to a high of 0.014%, mostly among people who weren't far off from dying anyways) in exchange for everyone having 2 years of having a non-miserable life. I know it's incredibly taboo to say something like this; but people are completely overvaluing the impact of the few absolute numbers of deaths, vs. the much harder to quantify widespread misery caused by these overreactions…

The Holocaust was highly profitable to non-Jewish German people. "Hitlers Volksstaat", Aly, Götz

That's a really excellent, if depressing, book.
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