The Coronavirus Is Here Forever • Hacker News Board

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#401

Post by pbourke » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

h3cate wrote: post #320

ethbr0 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point prior to saturation, hospitals and the public deserve to have unvaccinated COVID-19 patients (without a medical reason) turned away. We can do one of two things as communities: (1) Mandate vaccination for everyone, and provide everyone care (2) Allow everyone the freedom to remain unvaccinated, and limit care There's no other "normal" world where a highly communicable disease that causes a sufficient nu…

Do hospitals turn away people with the flu away if they are not vaccinated? Or is it only Covid that you would impose this rule for?

Has there been a flu season in recent history that caused the hospital system to collapse?

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#402

Post by ryantgtg » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

erhk wrote: post #290

rootusrootus wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Once my kids can get jabbed, I will cease giving covid much thought. I don't want to get a breakthrough case, even if it's not dangerous, because I loathe being ill, but getting sick periodically is an unfortunate fact of life.

Depending on the age of your children you can mostly cease giving it thought already. https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19... Barring unusual preconditions

> there is an urgent need to collect more data on longer-term impacts of the pandemic on children, including ways the virus may harm the long-term physical health of infected children, as well as its emotional and mental health effects.

Thanks, but I’ll still be thinking about it.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#403

Post by code4money » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

martin_bech wrote: post #347

adrr wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren’t scared up. Concern is around ICU usage and that elective surgery in hot areas are put on hold which include critical cancer removal surgeries. Also we have a large group of unvaccinated group which are under kids under 12. With life going back to normal, the standard diseases are back like RSV, paraflu and others. Get two at the same time and it’s a emergency room visit. Get 3 at the same time and it’s…

The masks part is easy.. it has no effect.. We have been on and off masks here in Denmark, and it seems to have no effect on spread. Also mostly you get covid when not wearing one.. from a family member or a friend..

"Compared with a baseline of 1-foot separation with no masks employed, particle count was reduced by 84% at 3 feet of separation and 97% at 6 feet. A modest decrease in particle count was observed when only the receiver was masked. The most substantial exposure reduction occurred when the aerosol source was masked (or both parties were masked). When both the source and target were masked, particle count was reduced by more than 99.5% of baseline, regardless of separation distance or which type of mask was employed."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00256...

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#404

Post by defgeneric » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #314

outside1234 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's unpopular. More precisely, once the vaccine is available to all age groups, the only people that need to be scared of it are the unvaccinated. And they will have had every opportunity to get vaccinated, so we shouldn't optimize for them.

Alternatively: the unvaccinated are simply mistaken, and represent people's cousins and friends and children and grandparents, and their suffering and death would represent real loss and tragedy even to people who did everything right and got their shots. The desire to see this pandemic solely in terms of an individual moral play (on all sides of the debate!) is really strong on this website, and I think it's very un…

I refuse to massively change my lifestyle and limit my freedom because some people have incorrect beliefs.

Post-vaccine, we are not all in this together.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#405

Post by mensetmanusman » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #325

adrr wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren’t scared up. Concern is around ICU usage and that elective surgery in hot areas are put on hold which include critical cancer removal surgeries. Also we have a large group of unvaccinated group which are under kids under 12. With life going back to normal, the standard diseases are back like RSV, paraflu and others. Get two at the same time and it’s a emergency room visit. Get 3 at the same time and it’s…

If they’re spending the whole day in a classroom together the effect of masks is going to be minimal.

Masks is too broad of a term as being used. There are OSHA environments where proper N95-type masks can protect you from aerosol risks for 8 hours a day.

The likelihood that a cloth mask can do that in a classroom however…

Best mitigator would be good HEPA room air purifiers, ideally multiple per classroom.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#406

Post by outside1234 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

greyivy wrote: post #239

outside1234 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's unpopular. More precisely, once the vaccine is available to all age groups, the only people that need to be scared of it are the unvaccinated. And they will have had every opportunity to get vaccinated, so we shouldn't optimize for them.

Not the immunocompromised or those who are legitimately unable to get vaccinated? Not a very nuanced take.

There are very few people who can legitimately not get vaccinated for science reasons.

The immunocompromised will have accelerated shots etc.

More generally, we can't solve for the 0.5%, we have to solve for the 98%.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#407

Post by GeekyBear » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #325

adrr wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren’t scared up. Concern is around ICU usage and that elective surgery in hot areas are put on hold which include critical cancer removal surgeries. Also we have a large group of unvaccinated group which are under kids under 12. With life going back to normal, the standard diseases are back like RSV, paraflu and others. Get two at the same time and it’s a emergency room visit. Get 3 at the same time and it’s…

If they’re spending the whole day in a classroom together the effect of masks is going to be minimal.

Here's one of the scientists on President Biden's Covid advisory council being interviewed on PBS.

TLDR: To get the sort of protection people imagine that cloth masks provide, you would need to be wearing an n95 mask, tightly fitted to your face so no air leaks in through the sides.

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks...

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#408

Post by rainbowzootsuit » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

lamontcg wrote: post #168

leoedin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the end goal? Do we keep lockdown restrictions forever? The case fatality rate for a vaccinated population is really low. There must be an acceptable level - after all we don't lock down for other endemic viruses which also have non-zero CFRs. What is it? Have we reached it?

The acceptable level is pretty much defined by when the hospitals aren't falling over again. If everyone would just get vaccinated, we'd be there. Instead people are for whatever reason ignoring the risks of the virus, and if the rate of hospitalization in their age category is only 1 in 50, enough of them making that choice mean that 2% of them guessing wrong is knocking the hospital system over again.

Maybe without a vaccination card or other pass that you're ineligible for the vaccine you get triaged right back out the door. That would help the hospital capacity, encourage vaccination, etc but it will probably need to get a bit more morgue capacity ramped up. Easier to train for.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#409

Post by outside1234 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

heywherelogingo wrote: post #267

outside1234 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's unpopular. More precisely, once the vaccine is available to all age groups, the only people that need to be scared of it are the unvaccinated. And they will have had every opportunity to get vaccinated, so we shouldn't optimize for them.

To think the unvaccinated should be scared of it reveals a perspective born of mania. I'm unvaccinated, had covid last week, it's preferable to a common cold. There is no way I will bother with the so-called vaccine, which is more of a mere remedy, when covid is so insignificant to people who are healthy. If you are so unhealthy that you need the vaccine (remedy) then you have bigger concerns.

So you are selfish, because you could have passed it on to a number of people in the meantime for whom it will not be a common cold.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#410

Post by AdamN » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #372

adrr wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren’t scared up. Concern is around ICU usage and that elective surgery in hot areas are put on hold which include critical cancer removal surgeries. Also we have a large group of unvaccinated group which are under kids under 12. With life going back to normal, the standard diseases are back like RSV, paraflu and others. Get two at the same time and it’s a emergency room visit. Get 3 at the same time and it’s…

> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... > At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control an…

This makes it sound like there was some groundbreaking CDC study that got hidden for political reasons.

It was a study of a single month in Georgia before Delta. Aside from the narrowness of the inputs I highly doubt school policy and ground truth were aligned.

That study is not enough to be driving policy.