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Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

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Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#331

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

solarkraft wrote: post #223
bushbaba wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s likely the payoff is also to prevent apple from building its own search engine to compete. As googles payoff is so lucrative

There have been reports and speculation that they’re doing just that. Of course it’s worth it for the negotiation threat alone, but Apple also really doesn’t seem to like depending on Google. I personally can’t see them switching any time soon, as DuckDuckGo’s search results are something between worse to terrible and I’m not sure they can do much better without collecting more data.

I use DDG on all my devices, and my experience was very good. I fallback to Google in, perhaps, 1% of cases.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#332

Post by summerlight »

Interestingly, this is exactly what's happening in the console gaming market today; Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have been paying subsidies of millions dollar to renowned studios as well as various preferential treatments on advertising, publishing and marketing of their games.

The difference is that the console market has real competitions which gives more leverages to developers. Google didn't have to do this thanks to its iron grip on the market until Epic have revealed its arsenal. This is why we need to bring more competitions in the app store market; Even if it doesn't bring any real alternatives, this tiny possibility of competition will force Google and Apple to yield more and more to developers.

The first step should be breaking the Duopoly cartel. It's only possible because Apple has no competitions and Google simply enjoys its follower-ship, enabled by their non-aggression pact. Force Apple to allow third party store and payment solutions to dismantle its unfair advantages against competitor apps thanks to 30% fee. This will force Apple to develop Web and Android version of its services which will effectively nullify the non-aggression pact.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#333

Post by geocar »

amelius wrote: post #241
bushbaba wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s likely the payoff is also to prevent apple from building its own search engine to compete. As googles payoff is so lucrative

If I were Apple, I would spend at least $1B of that $7B on developing a secret new search engine :)

I think a lot of people overestimate how easy it is to make a search engine, and underestimate how hard it is to sell search to advertisers.

I think this is closer to a 50B problem than a 1B problem. Not impossible, but I don’t know anyone who has 50B that they would want to spend fighting uphill to kill google.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#334

Post by kalleboo »

solarkraft wrote: post #223
bushbaba wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s likely the payoff is also to prevent apple from building its own search engine to compete. As googles payoff is so lucrative

There have been reports and speculation that they’re doing just that. Of course it’s worth it for the negotiation threat alone, but Apple also really doesn’t seem to like depending on Google. I personally can’t see them switching any time soon, as DuckDuckGo’s search results are something between worse to terrible and I’m not sure they can do much better without collecting more data.

> DuckDuckGo’s search results are something between worse to terrible and I’m not sure they can do much better without collecting more data

Last I checked, DDG's search results are just Bing (aside from the infobox-type stuff which is from their own data sources), and Bing does collect data from Microsoft's browsers and toolbars https://www.wired.com/2011/02/bing-copies-google/

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#335

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

toastal wrote: post #251
simfree wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Maps has a better data collection method (bugging their userbase to collect data for them, encouraging users to collect even more as Google Scouts) and also the dataset of Waze, while Apple has a much more laborious process where an Apple Contractor (initially in Austin or Cupertino) modifies points of interest, business hours, road alignments, etc manually. Apple started to ship this operation over to India 5…

I wish more people would realize they are literally working for Google without getting paid to do this work. If it's out of a greater sense of helping people and contributions, OpenStreetMap needs to be better known.

Russian tech giant Yandex (they mostly do everything that Google does: search, maps, email, etc) has a so-called "People's map", filled by volunteers who transfer rights for their edits to Yandex for free the use in their closed commercial project. I always wondered why these volunteers don't work on OpenStreetMap instead.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#336

Post by paganel »

ctvo wrote: post #38
jakecopp wrote: post #9

> After another meeting between Apple and Google senior executives, notes showed that the execs agreed: "Our vision is that we work as if we are one company." ... > This unredacted graf shows that telcos get up to 25% of Google's app sales to keep them from developing rival app stores on the smartphones they sell and service. Insane reading.

The new FTC chair, Lina Khan, read this like Birdman, rubbing her hands.

I don't think she has that much power just yet, my only hope is that the powers that be behind US's industrial military's complex got scared into (re-)action by China's recent moves against the likes of Jack Ma and Tencent, they might just think that the Chinese are right and employing that much human capital into what's essential add- and attention-seeking business is not a good military defence strategy long-term.

With those powers behind her she can do some harm, otherwise I'm afraid she'll be just a sitting duck in front of FANG's lobbyists.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#337

Post by paganel »

crazygringo wrote: post #106
mard wrote: post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

The different is crystal clear. Microsoft was considered a monopoly. You really had no good choice but Windows. Apple and Google aren't. You have a choice between iOS and Android, both vibrant and thriving. It really is that simple. And it's not just the legal but common sense definition of monopoly too -- do you control the market or not? Now you might have other criticisms of app stores, but basing them on the Micr…

An oligopoly (i.e. a business cartel) it's just as bad as a monopoly. Even worse, I would say, because on the outside it gives you the illusion of business competition, while with a monopoly you kind of know loud and clear what you're dealing with.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#338

Post by tsimionescu »

hyperpallium2 wrote: post #285
dalbasal wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> 25% of Google's app sales to keep them from developing rival app stores Google also pays Apple 7 billion annually^ to be its default SE. Despite Adwords' incredible profitability, Yahoo & MSFT's experience as 2nd place in that market was working very hard and earning $0 profits... Their Revenues @ were far lower than proportional to their market share, and costs are the opposite. Better to just take your share of…

People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.

Adam Smith, right?

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#339

Post by prox »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #320
solarkraft wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been reports and speculation that they’re doing just that. Of course it’s worth it for the negotiation threat alone, but Apple also really doesn’t seem to like depending on Google. I personally can’t see them switching any time soon, as DuckDuckGo’s search results are something between worse to terrible and I’m not sure they can do much better without collecting more data.

Google results aren't much better, I feel that nowadays, if I want to find anything relevant, I need to use site:, and most often than not, it'll be either stackoverflow, reddit and some other french sites. Anything else is either spam/sales or ebay "proxys". It's scary how the web feels much more narrower.

Yeah using reddit for a lot of searches is usually my default now.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#340

Post by nerbert »

geocar wrote: post #333
amelius wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Apple, I would spend at least $1B of that $7B on developing a secret new search engine :)

I think a lot of people overestimate how easy it is to make a search engine, and underestimate how hard it is to sell search to advertisers. I think this is closer to a 50B problem than a 1B problem. Not impossible, but I don’t know anyone who has 50B that they would want to spend fighting uphill to kill google.

A 50B$ problem is only 5 years of these 10B$ per year. I’d be surprised if Apple wasn’t on it.
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