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The mutation that helps Delta spread

nature.com

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Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#411

Post by betwixthewires »

Jeema101 wrote: post #392
dcolkitt wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a question of preferences that too often gets buried in this debate. If Covid becomes endemic at around its current severity, what level of pandemic restrictions are you willing to accept forever? For me personally, Covid would have to be at least 100 times worse before I’d support masking forever. But I get the sense that some people barely see any downside to it. I think these cross-views drive so much if t…

I hope I am mistaken here, but... are you saying that it would need to kill 1/6th of the population every year (instead of 1/600) before you will consider putting a piece of cloth over your face? What's so terrible about wearing a mask?

You're misdirecting and missing the point entirely.

While I'm not quite anti mask like the parent comment, it is an important question to consider, it is always a trade off. What severity warrant what measures? If there's still covid like now in 10 years, will we all have to wear masks at work until we retire? Is this feasible? If not, then when do we stop? Will the people advocating it ever tell us to stop? If not, do we stop without their blessing? All very important considerations that everyone should be thinking about for themselves.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#412

Post by MagicWishMonkey »

betwixthewires wrote: post #408
jmfldn wrote: post #151

Purely anecdotal but I'm double vaccinated (Astra Zeneca) and I caught Covid recently. It was probably Delta as 99% of cases in UK are. I know of quite a few vaccinated friends who've caught it recently too. Mainly AZ I think but one was Pfizer (single jabbed). Anyway, none of us had severe illness although I felt pretty rough for a few days like I had a really bad cold and smell went for a week completely. I was bas…

> ...the vaccine still stops serious illness to a high degree. Anecdotally, you don't know that, you don't know what caused you to have a mild case, if this had happened a year ago you wouldn't be giving credit to a vaccine. > it does seem like this virus is bucking the trend and not necessarily becoming less potent Don't you think it's possible your very mild case might be evidence against this claim? Anecdotal, of…

The numbers don’t lie, .001% of vaccinated people end up dying from covid, which is an order of magnitude less than folks who aren’t vaccinated.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#413

Post by cma »

chefkoch wrote: post #255
criticaltinker wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, I'm sorry you had to suffer like that - and I don't want anyone to be denied healthcare. > I’d rather vaccinate and mask up then be denied healthcare You've presented a false dichotomy here - mass vaccination and masking will not necessarily prevent overwhelmed hospitals. Israel is a prime example - with one of the highest vaccination rates in the world - their hospitals are being overwhelmed right now due…

> Israel is a prime example - with the highest vaccination rate in the world Israel has 60% of the population fully vacced, compared to iceland with 71% >Israel's ICUs overflow as unvaccinated patients fall severely ill https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/sj1lzflgk

Isreal also pretty strictly contolled things early on so had less natural immunity than others going into this wave (but Iceland did that too). And they struck a deal to get the vaccine early, so may have wanin immunity (lots of debate on this and whether this actually just behavior change due to presumption of immunity).

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#414

Post by betwixthewires »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #381
ls612 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one like having the right to show my face in public

I for one like to not have to look at peoples mouths/noses, nor do I like to smell their breath/perfume/cologne/bo.

Well we should all accommodate you then.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#415

Post by betwixthewires »

MagicWishMonkey wrote: post #412
betwixthewires wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...the vaccine still stops serious illness to a high degree. Anecdotally, you don't know that, you don't know what caused you to have a mild case, if this had happened a year ago you wouldn't be giving credit to a vaccine. > it does seem like this virus is bucking the trend and not necessarily becoming less potent Don't you think it's possible your very mild case might be evidence against this claim? Anecdotal, of…

The numbers don’t lie, .001% of vaccinated people end up dying from covid, which is an order of magnitude less than folks who aren’t vaccinated.

OK, that's good, but the claim I was responding to was that the new variant is not less deadly than the old one. I was asking about infection v hospital rates for the old and new variants. Also with all these different variants going around, if the newer one is less deadly it would skew that number unless the different variant cases, deaths and vaccination statuses are all accounted for.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#416

Post by Barrin92 »

nicoburns wrote: post #363
Barrin92 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has to end at some point In some countries at least it might become normalized the same way it has in say Japan or Singapore with a history of respiratory disease, the UK does not have the same aversion to public health measures as the US.

Perhaps not, but the UK has already made mask wearing non-mandatory.

only England. Scotland, Wales and NI still mandate masks.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#417

Post by MagicWishMonkey »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #320
jimmaswell wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to end at some point, and for me and most other people where I live in the US, it mostly has.

I thought the same last summer. It's always "almost over" yet there's chatter of Lockdown 3.0 here in the tristate area.

No lockdowns are going to happen, but I expect to be masking up for at least another 6 months. Not a big deal, definitely better than it was last August, that’s for sure.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#418

Post by dcolkitt »

Jeema101 wrote: post #392
dcolkitt wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a question of preferences that too often gets buried in this debate. If Covid becomes endemic at around its current severity, what level of pandemic restrictions are you willing to accept forever? For me personally, Covid would have to be at least 100 times worse before I’d support masking forever. But I get the sense that some people barely see any downside to it. I think these cross-views drive so much if t…

I hope I am mistaken here, but... are you saying that it would need to kill 1/6th of the population every year (instead of 1/600) before you will consider putting a piece of cloth over your face? What's so terrible about wearing a mask?

The Covid death rate among vaccinated people is under 0.01%[1]. One hundred times worse than the current situation would make Covid not significantly worse than seasonal influenza for the vaccinated.

Sure, one hundred times worse among those who refuse to vaccinate would be significantly worse. But if a significant proportion of the population voluntarily refuses to vaccinate, I see no reason why the rest of society should bend over backwards to protect them from their own choices.

[1]https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrou...

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#419

Post by maxerickson »

dragontamer wrote: post #261
mynameishere wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a bit more A bit more until the virus decides to go away? Or a bit more until they invent a non-leaky vaccine? Or a bit more like when the cows come home? Because that's what you are talking about. A bit more forever.

Lets start with "Lets be precautious until hospitals stop triage of care". Maybe we should be precautious until hospitalization levels return to something looking like normal. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/16/joel-valdez... > Man shot 6 times waits more than a week for surgery after hospital is overwhelmed by covid --------- When our hospitals are full, we should be cautious. When our hospitals empty…

Keeping hospitals functioning should be a minimum goal.

(like, you wouldn't reduce vaccination effort just because the load on hospitals eased up, high levels of vaccination is a reasonable goal unto itself)

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#420

Post by cryptonector »

nneonneo wrote: post #402
cryptonector wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iaIYlcD_Po

Your video claims that masks don’t work because they’ll leak vape smoke. However, masks aren’t meant to be airtight, but rather a barrier against droplets (like the kind expelled when you cough or sneeze). Droplets are what primarily carry the virus across long distances.

Yes, they work on droplets. Obviously you didn't watch the whole thing. No, droplets are not the only mode for delivering the virus.
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