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Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

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Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#51

Post by pseudonym »

hugh3 wrote: post #40
pseudonym wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is easily the silliest thing I've heard about this so far, and this is after reading AirBnB's PR statement. If they fuck this up, they won't "come out stronger", they'll come out with a sufficiently heavy PR backlash that people won't use them anymore. And that'll be that. As it stands now, the only thing people are hearing are negative things about AirBnB, and unless they take huge steps to fix that, there's go…

I think we're over-estimating how big and widespread this story is, because it's all over the HN front page. Sure, plenty of people are going to hear about it and it's gonna be damaging for airbnb. But a whole lot of people aren't going to hear about it because they don't read HN or the Financial Times. It's bad for airbnb, but shouldn't be a killer. From my point of view, my only surprise is that it didn't happen so…

Given how often major news outlets seem to jump on "THE INTERNET IS BAD LULZ" stories, I wouldn't be surprised to see this picked up and used as a reason to push that internet browsing history law [1], or some other net neutrality thing. Does it make sense? No. Will it help anything? No. But logic rarely matters when you're trying to be alarmist.

[1] http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110728/17280315306/house-...

Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#52

Post by hugh3 »

pseudonym wrote: post #51
hugh3 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're over-estimating how big and widespread this story is, because it's all over the HN front page. Sure, plenty of people are going to hear about it and it's gonna be damaging for airbnb. But a whole lot of people aren't going to hear about it because they don't read HN or the Financial Times. It's bad for airbnb, but shouldn't be a killer. From my point of view, my only surprise is that it didn't happen so…

Given how often major news outlets seem to jump on "THE INTERNET IS BAD LULZ" stories, I wouldn't be surprised to see this picked up and used as a reason to push that internet browsing history law [1], or some other net neutrality thing. Does it make sense? No. Will it help anything? No. But logic rarely matters when you're trying to be alarmist. [1] http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110728/17280315306/house-...

I hope you see how

But logic rarely matters when you're trying to be alarmist.

is ironic when you're saying

I wouldn't be surprised to see this picked up and used as a reason to push that internet browsing history law [1], or some other net neutrality thing.

Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#53

Post by paisible »

pseudonym wrote: post #27
paisible wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they don't, they'll come out stronger.

That is easily the silliest thing I've heard about this so far, and this is after reading AirBnB's PR statement. If they fuck this up, they won't "come out stronger", they'll come out with a sufficiently heavy PR backlash that people won't use them anymore. And that'll be that. As it stands now, the only thing people are hearing are negative things about AirBnB, and unless they take huge steps to fix that, there's go…

If AirBnB fails, it won't be because some competitor comes and takes the market, it will be because the whole model of renting apartments doesn't work. And given the success they've had in such a short time, safe the say the model DOES work. EVERY SINGLE COMPETITOR will face the same online/offline hurdles. Don't think AirBnB won't copy whatever their competitors do better in a second, and they'll still be recognized as the trail-blazers in this industry.

Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#54

Post by Jun8 »

r00fus wrote: post #37
Jun8 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on observation. So, it is idiotic for the competitors to hit on AirBnB, since that is the biggest company in their budding niche and if that falls, well, nothing will remain. They should all try to minimize the damage to their biz model. EDIT: Let me elaborate: Firms compete among themselves in a given field and all's fair in this competition. However, when the whole industry is threatened, you should gather for…

I think roomorama.com's idea to increase vetting is a good start (along with black-list sharing, as nasty as that sounds to me)... but it's only a start. It doesn't, for example, deal with stolen identity. A recently stolen card+ID would bypass all of those protections, and easily lead to a quick buck for meth-lab operations (which is what EJ's situation sounds like it was).

You're right, it is a step in the right direction but bad guys can still find a way through. This is true for many different scenarios, e.g. applies to car rentals, too, you can rent on a stolen license and wreck it.

What AirBnB and others should do is to gather statistical analysis on how often such things occur, what's the cost, etc. and make this widely known.

In fact this could be additional revenue for AirBnB: offer different levels of protection for $N extra (a la car rental companies, they love to sell you protection, or Best Buy, where the employees pester you continuously about protection.) When life gives you lemons, lick them, i.e. don;t run away, embrace the difficulty.

In the end bad things will always happen but you have to know that the company you use will protect you when it happens. No protection, no business.

Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#55

Post by kevinpet »

There's no real security in the process described. If they stole a wallet with a credit card, they also have the ID. I'd categorize it as actually harmful because it gives more of an illusion of security.

Couchsurfing apparently has someone capable of logical thinking on staff. The round trip of verifying an address adds real security.

Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#56

Post by rapind »

Jun8 wrote: post #20
r00fus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, when mass media picks it up, the hotel industry will be made to look like knights in shining armor... the hotel lobby is big and powerful and media is corrupt. AirBnB's fiasco is not a long-term benefit for their direct competitors either.

Spot on observation. So, it is idiotic for the competitors to hit on AirBnB, since that is the biggest company in their budding niche and if that falls, well, nothing will remain. They should all try to minimize the damage to their biz model. EDIT: Let me elaborate: Firms compete among themselves in a given field and all's fair in this competition. However, when the whole industry is threatened, you should gather for…

That's only if you have a lot of investment pressure to take over the space and make a killing at it. If you're taking a much smaller long-term and slow growth approach with your own / angel coin then you're in a much better position to weather the storm, and yes you should take advantage of this situation imo.

Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#57

Post by joe_the_user »

angryasian wrote: post #36
prostoalex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vacation rentals (through Homeaway et al.) are typically set up just for that reason, and thus have combo boxes, carry some insurance, involve a cleaning fee. AirBnb democratized the process by allowing anyone to rent out any portion of their property, contributing to supply and more competitive pricing, but with this set up you get into weird situations where owner's valuables and jewelry end up in the next room.

an investment property is and should be treated differently than your own living property. I think this is the main point of confusion for most people. Most of these other services that do vacation rentals are usually renting out investment properties or timeshares. Its a huge difference.

Even with this event, I don't think the mixing of these two things is going to stop.

The present "wave of disruption" sweeping the world is based on finding ways to use resources more efficiently by changing social divisions. Even if Airbnb in particular now crashes and burns, there's so much potential savings in the airbnb model that people will continue to sweep away the earlier divisions in some fashion.

Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#58

Post by cubix »

I'm surprised that scanning IDs is much of a deterrent. If would-be thieves are going to the trouble of booking rooms on AirBNB and the like, they are obviously more than casual criminals, and probably fairly technically adept ones at that. Taking the next logical step to Photoshop the image doesn't seem like much of an obstacle for someone so motivated.

Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#59

Post by ryanhuff »

paisible wrote: post #53
pseudonym wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is easily the silliest thing I've heard about this so far, and this is after reading AirBnB's PR statement. If they fuck this up, they won't "come out stronger", they'll come out with a sufficiently heavy PR backlash that people won't use them anymore. And that'll be that. As it stands now, the only thing people are hearing are negative things about AirBnB, and unless they take huge steps to fix that, there's go…

If AirBnB fails, it won't be because some competitor comes and takes the market, it will be because the whole model of renting apartments doesn't work. And given the success they've had in such a short time, safe the say the model DOES work. EVERY SINGLE COMPETITOR will face the same online/offline hurdles. Don't think AirBnB won't copy whatever their competitors do better in a second, and they'll still be recognized…

This kind of news could kill peoples appetite for the product, despite the business model, effectively killing the whole industry segment.

Re: Airbnb Competitor Checks IDs: 'We Don't Want to Trade Security for Volume'

#60

Post by pak »

cubix wrote: post #58

I'm surprised that scanning IDs is much of a deterrent. If would-be thieves are going to the trouble of booking rooms on AirBNB and the like, they are obviously more than casual criminals, and probably fairly technically adept ones at that. Taking the next logical step to Photoshop the image doesn't seem like much of an obstacle for someone so motivated.

Indeed, if Nigerian 419 scammers have already picked up photoshopping IDs [1], you can imagine what a low barrier this will be. The real question is if you can verify the ID electronically from the image, and the answer will generally be no.

[1] http://www.419eater.com/html/hall_of_shame4.htm

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