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Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

bbc.com

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Re: Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

#121

Post by dahfizz »

teorema wrote: post #105
wonderwonder wrote: post #87

So new cars are going to be come more expensive due to supply limitations and in turn used cars will continue to become more expensive as they can rise to a certain % of the new car price. At the same time housing prices continue to sky rocket. Seems like not a great time for someone just stepping into adulthood and financial responsibility.

Not really a great time for anyone really, at least from the vantage point you're referring to.

If you're an established adult who owns a house and two cars, your assets have skyrocketted. You're having a great time.

Re: Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

#122

Post by carlmr »

gonzo41 wrote: post #116
wonderwonder wrote: post #87

So new cars are going to be come more expensive due to supply limitations and in turn used cars will continue to become more expensive as they can rise to a certain % of the new car price. At the same time housing prices continue to sky rocket. Seems like not a great time for someone just stepping into adulthood and financial responsibility.

Spend 5K on a really nice commuter electric bicycle. You'll be doing a solid for the Environment and you'll have an EV that makes you fitter.

My problem with dropping 5K on a bike is that they get stolen

Re: Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

#123

Post by atonse »

brobdingnagians wrote: post #75
Veliladon wrote: post #7

Toyota was one of the few (only?) companies to keep a large stockpile of chips on hand to continue production in case of a supply interruption. They kept something like two years worth on hand. I guess 18 months of doing the extremely heavy lifting for the whole industry has taken its toll and now they're in the same boat.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but does anyone still produce cars without chips? It's possible, and in the current environment it seems like it would be a major competitive advantage-- and might be more reliable in general.

I can’t think of any system in a car today that doesn’t use some chip somewhere.

Wouldn’t even power steering use it? Headlights?

Engines would have engine control units running some kind of real-time OS, anti lock brakes, anti traction systems, airbags, power locks with wireless keys. Climate control vs just “AC fan on”

Even some ignition systems have chips that do some kind of key exchange to start the car. (Yes you can bypass it but now you’re making a car that’s easier to steal)

Re: Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

#124

Post by yalogin »

ipqk wrote: post #101
wonderwonder wrote: post #87

So new cars are going to be come more expensive due to supply limitations and in turn used cars will continue to become more expensive as they can rise to a certain % of the new car price. At the same time housing prices continue to sky rocket. Seems like not a great time for someone just stepping into adulthood and financial responsibility.

The difference being that lots of people want to keep those inflated housing prices high (nimbyism), whereas nearly everyone wants car prices to go back to normal.

Car prices won't go back to normal again though. They will come up clever financing schemes to make people pay but the prices will never be reduced.

Re: Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

#125

Post by petre »

ruuda wrote: post #99
icegreentea2 wrote: post #50

The article (and others about this topic) indicate that the chip shortage isn't just a static. They all claim that chip and other supply chains (all based on South East Asian) are all under new pressure from delta strain spread. In fact, I wonder how much of this really is chip supply vs general supply. Most articles on this open with headlines about chip supply, but then contains quotes from Toyota about "supply" an…

Yeah, this also makes no sense to me: > The Covid pandemic boosted demand for appliances that use chips, such as phones, TVs and games consoles. SOCs in phones and game consoles are produced on very different processes than chips used in cars, no? Cars don't need the smallest dies or most energy-efficient chips. These industries are not competing for the same capacity. Or am I missing something?

> SOCs in phones and game consoles are produced on very different processes than chips used in cars, no?

Yes, some of them are different. Consumer chips are not industrial norm, they have narrower environmental operating ranges.

The foundries producing automotive chips shifted production to consumer chips during the lockdowns, as the auto production lines were on hold. This caused supply chain disruptions. Add to that US > China IP export bans and you have a black swan event.

Re: Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

#126

Post by detaro »

swarnie_ wrote: post #46
twarge wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that the shortage of chips is also strongly driven by speculators simply buying up everything in sight and trying to resell at multiples of the cost.

You think people are buying up Chips designed to go in to Toyota cars? Surely they're beyond worthless to anyone but the manufacturer and Toyota themselves?

Parent was speaking of the chip shortage in general, which goes way past cars. Car manufacturers will do what they can to isolate themselves from the open market (and buy the numbers and have the political backing to do so), but demand for non-car parts affects allocation of production capacity to their demands too.

> designed to go in to Toyota cars?

Chips rarely are designed for a specific car, and a car will also contain quite a few that are not strictly specific to automotive.

Re: Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

#127

Post by ohples »

ghaff wrote: post #104
brobdingnagians wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but does anyone still produce cars without chips? It's possible, and in the current environment it seems like it would be a major competitive advantage-- and might be more reliable in general.

>and might be more reliable in general Cars in, say, the 1960s were not "more reliable in general." It's not all semiconductor-related of course--they also rusted out quickly in areas that got snow--but 5 years/50K miles is about what you were looking at for vehicle lifetime. Also much lower fuel efficiency, to say nothing of lack of what we'd consider routine safety features today.

I seem to recall most cars built before the mid-80s just had 5 digit odometers.

Re: Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

#128

Post by ren_engineer »

wonderwonder wrote: post #87

So new cars are going to be come more expensive due to supply limitations and in turn used cars will continue to become more expensive as they can rise to a certain % of the new car price. At the same time housing prices continue to sky rocket. Seems like not a great time for someone just stepping into adulthood and financial responsibility.

but stop and think for a second about all those short term profits Wall Street made by outsourcing all of our crucial manufacturing! Those congressional bribes don't pay themselves either! /s

the worst part is our government is rewarding them for bad behavior, the article mentions the billion dollar chip subsidy program. So these companies made money outsourcing and will now make more by bringing it back. Instead they should put a massive tariff on any chip not made in the US. Companies that invested here would be rewarded for loyalty

Re: Chip shortage: Toyota to cut global production by 40%

#130

Post by bongoman37 »

gonzo41 wrote: post #116
wonderwonder wrote: post #87

So new cars are going to be come more expensive due to supply limitations and in turn used cars will continue to become more expensive as they can rise to a certain % of the new car price. At the same time housing prices continue to sky rocket. Seems like not a great time for someone just stepping into adulthood and financial responsibility.

Spend 5K on a really nice commuter electric bicycle. You'll be doing a solid for the Environment and you'll have an EV that makes you fitter.

If you have a kid that's not a workable solution, moreover, safety is a huge issue on 2 wheelers.
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