The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made? • Hacker News Board

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#91

Post by earleybird » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

RobertoG wrote: post #83

at_a_remove wrote: post #41

Take Dark City . I believe the studio forced a new opening that more or less explained everything rather than letting you puzzle it all out. I didn't find the movie too hard to work through, but I think Hollywood execs have a fairly low estimation of the audience's intellect. Lynch is a bit harder. Lynch is atypical in two ways that play off of one another. First and most obviously, he has been developing as a film-m…

That's great insight about Lynch. I was totally puzzled by Mulholland Drive, then I read an explanation in a IMDB review, watch it again, and I was amazed that everything made sense. It was encrypted and somebody gave me the keys. That's really an artistic experience.

Great artists are often misunderstood, many who are misunderstood are not great artists - The Sphinx :-)

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#92

Post by newsbinator » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

troutwine wrote: post #88

newsbinator wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. Most people, in most cultures, don't accept it as fact that life doesn't make sense. What % of people would agree with the statement "everything happens for a reason"? Or even "because God did it". Of those who don't think everything happens for a reason (i.e. life makes sense... to someone), the vast majority nevertheless believe we live in a universe of physical…

What sense does getting wiped out by a plague make?

You could look at it a dozen different ways, depending on your sense-making framework:

* God did it (makes sense- God does cataclysmic stuff)

* Nature did it (makes sense- biology is a jerk and we haven't mastered it yet)

* Humans did it by mistake (makes sense- we make huge errors all the time)

* etc

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#93

Post by earleybird » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #86

yumaikas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people with power shut down people who are smarter than them for being annoying, I guess is what I'm getting at.

I'd counter that by saying lots of people think they're being smart but in fact are just annoying pedants (like me!).

upvote, just for driving the point home - with parenthesis

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#94

Post by gambiting » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

troutwine wrote: post #88

newsbinator wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. Most people, in most cultures, don't accept it as fact that life doesn't make sense. What % of people would agree with the statement "everything happens for a reason"? Or even "because God did it". Of those who don't think everything happens for a reason (i.e. life makes sense... to someone), the vast majority nevertheless believe we live in a universe of physical…

What sense does getting wiped out by a plague make?

A lot of religious people I know would just say that god had his reasons and that's good enough. You don't need to understand why, the very core of religion is to believe that god "acts in misterious ways" and if something happened then it's because god wanted it to happen. Maybe those people have sinned. Maybe that's god's way to teach people a lesson. Or maybe it's something entirely else and we just don't know yet - you just need to trust that god knows what they are doing.

Really, it's as deep/shallow as this, not much else to it.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#95

Post by chadcmulligan » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 11:09 PM UTC

There was a story I heard that the actors couldn't follow what was going on either, there was a large blackboard with arrows and scenes to help them figure out where they were.

For anyone who's thinking of watching this weekend, the Maltese falcon is another great Bogart movie, and not quite as complex as the big sleep, and my personal favourite.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#96

Post by earleybird » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 11:09 PM UTC

Joeboy wrote: post #32

jerf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel similarly about the "twist" that "it was just a dream!" or something similar. It's already fiction. It's already made up. If I wanted to be stuck with just the stories & endings and such I could make up, I wouldn't be coming to you for a story. Not that there isn't room for ambiguity or complexity or anything, but, I already know what I think. I'm here precisely to find out what someone else thinks, and "well,…

"It was just a dream" only works if it suggests an actual ending. Eg. Brazil, Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge. I don't think it's a viable twist in itself.

Which ending of Brazil?

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#97

Post by seph-reed » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 11:10 PM UTC

hellbannedguy wrote: post #87

yumaikas wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of "smart" is due to his power, and how much of it is due to his intellect. I say this not because I don't believe he doesn't have an impressive intellect, but because, well, what if someone had his intellect, but worked in an Amazon warehouse due to circumstances outside of their control?

I think the "smart" compliment is just common sence. Build up his ego, you might need him one day. Business 101. 1. Yes--he built an impressive company, and a company ripe for unionization. I've never understood why he allowed so much counterfeit merch on that site? I can't imagine why he didn't stifle that one. 2. He gave away billions in a preventable divorce. 3. Because of vanity, he wore those stupid cowboy hats…

None of these things are related to why the author was convinced of his intelligence.

And while it absolutely is common to call others smart, I think the following comment is rather special:

> "better regarded as hyper-intelligent aliens with a tangential interest in human affairs."

That comment is, IMO, believably earnest. And any person who requires such a comment to build up their ego is believably pretty smart as well.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#98

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

LarrySellers wrote: post #56

at_a_remove wrote: post #41

Take Dark City . I believe the studio forced a new opening that more or less explained everything rather than letting you puzzle it all out. I didn't find the movie too hard to work through, but I think Hollywood execs have a fairly low estimation of the audience's intellect. Lynch is a bit harder. Lynch is atypical in two ways that play off of one another. First and most obviously, he has been developing as a film-m…

“I don't know why people expect art to make sense. They accept the fact that life doesn't make sense.” -- David Lynch

[deleted]

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#99

Post by d23 » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 11:22 PM UTC

telesphore wrote: post #46

It's a matter of setting up expectations and balancing that with good story telling. Ambiguity, elision, out-of-order story telling, etc. are all part of art but it's a delicate balance. There's a contract that artists set up with the audience that will allow them to use these techniques. Primer is one of those where I'm OK with my confusion because the story was interesting without all the answers, and it was setup…

> No Country for Old Men, again IMO, rides that line a little close. Sure the Bardem character checks his boots at the end but there were some other major gaps that I don't think were set up. It was well acted and produced but expectations were not managed so it still goes into my meh pile.

Really? This is one of my favorite movies. What did you find overly ambiguous? If anything I felt the closing dialog and monologue were sort of on the nose about the theme of the movie, but I don't mind that.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#100

Post by WalterBright » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 11:22 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #68

WalterBright wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an "explanation" that it's all pointless magic is not an explanation. I suspect that the writers originally had a coherent story arc, but the show was so successful they had to extend, extend, extend it, which produced the incoherence.

Well, it is one of the most highly regarded series in history by critics, so some people thought the explanations were sufficient at least. Abrams and the writers were planning from the outset to do that many seasons and wrote a story bible outlining all the lore and mythology referenced throughout the writing. Having story arcs over the course of years was intentional and a novel idea at the time when most TV series…

> Abrams and the writers were planning from the outset to do that many seasons and wrote a story bible outlining all the lore and mythology referenced throughout the writing.

"lore and mythology referenced" is not the same as having a plot outline.