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The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

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Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#81

Post by smackeyacky »

version_five wrote: post #47

One thing I'd add to the article is that a key feature of the Marlow novels is their meandering plots. I read once that Raymond Chandler stories are about the journey, not the destination, so basically you're following Marlow around as he does stuff (that is mentioned in the article). The stuff he does is locally interesting, and it makes the stories good. But judging the stories based on their plot synopsis doesn't…

This is very much my experience of those novels. Not quite as opaque as Conrad's "Heart of darkness" but I get the idea that you are supposed to be as much in the dark about what is happening to Marlowe as Marlowe is himself. It helps with the immersion.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#83

Post by RobertoG »

at_a_remove wrote: post #41

Take Dark City . I believe the studio forced a new opening that more or less explained everything rather than letting you puzzle it all out. I didn't find the movie too hard to work through, but I think Hollywood execs have a fairly low estimation of the audience's intellect. Lynch is a bit harder. Lynch is atypical in two ways that play off of one another. First and most obviously, he has been developing as a film-m…

That's great insight about Lynch.

I was totally puzzled by Mulholland Drive, then I read an explanation in a IMDB review, watch it again, and I was amazed that everything made sense. It was encrypted and somebody gave me the keys. That's really an artistic experience.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#84

Post by newsbinator »

LarrySellers wrote: post #56
at_a_remove wrote: post #41

Take Dark City . I believe the studio forced a new opening that more or less explained everything rather than letting you puzzle it all out. I didn't find the movie too hard to work through, but I think Hollywood execs have a fairly low estimation of the audience's intellect. Lynch is a bit harder. Lynch is atypical in two ways that play off of one another. First and most obviously, he has been developing as a film-m…

“I don't know why people expect art to make sense. They accept the fact that life doesn't make sense.” -- David Lynch

> They accept the fact that life doesn't make sense.

Most people, in most cultures, don't accept it as fact that life doesn't make sense.

What % of people would agree with the statement "everything happens for a reason"? Or even "because God did it".

Of those who don't think everything happens for a reason (i.e. life makes sense... to someone), the vast majority nevertheless believe we live in a universe of physical rules.

We accept we could get wiped out by an asteroid or a deadly plague, sure. That makes sense.

We don't accept we could get wiped out by a Lynchian fever dream. That doesn't make sense.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#85

Post by twelvechairs »

version_five wrote: post #47

One thing I'd add to the article is that a key feature of the Marlow novels is their meandering plots. I read once that Raymond Chandler stories are about the journey, not the destination, so basically you're following Marlow around as he does stuff (that is mentioned in the article). The stuff he does is locally interesting, and it makes the stories good. But judging the stories based on their plot synopsis doesn't…

TV has shifted this way, where its now common to have long running series where different writers, directors, etc. across every episode. Everything is logical in its immediate context but can seem illogical in the broader context of the entire series/show.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#86

Post by AussieWog93 »

yumaikas wrote: post #29
yumaikas wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of "smart" is due to his power, and how much of it is due to his intellect. I say this not because I don't believe he doesn't have an impressive intellect, but because, well, what if someone had his intellect, but worked in an Amazon warehouse due to circumstances outside of their control?

Lots of people with power shut down people who are smarter than them for being annoying, I guess is what I'm getting at.

I'd counter that by saying lots of people think they're being smart but in fact are just annoying pedants (like me!).

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#87

Post by hellbannedguy »

yumaikas wrote: post #28
seph-reed wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a really nice read. I've made a habit lately of "checking out" on having any opinion about anything I can't truly analyze. And this is a great example of why. I'm surrounded in content telling me why Bezos is a monster, and they make a good argument. But for all that hatred, I've never once heard a single mention of him being smart, let alone intimidatingly smart, let alone "a first class genius" or "better…

I wonder how much of "smart" is due to his power, and how much of it is due to his intellect. I say this not because I don't believe he doesn't have an impressive intellect, but because, well, what if someone had his intellect, but worked in an Amazon warehouse due to circumstances outside of their control?

I think the "smart" compliment is just common sence. Build up his ego, you might need him one day. Business 101.

1. Yes--he built an impressive company, and a company ripe for unionization. I've never understood why he allowed so much counterfeit merch on that site? I can't imagine why he didn't stifle that one.

2. He gave away billions in a preventable divorce.

3. Because of vanity, he wore those stupid cowboy hats during that amusement ride for wealthy people. Looking back that PR stunt could have been so much better.

4. I really think his forte is diligence, and drive testosterone gives a man. He was also first to market basically, and tenacious.

Hell-- if he was truely a genius, he probally would have never started the company. I'll go farther. Being smart might be a impediment to a good businessman?

5. I don't know Bezos. I don't know any successful businessman, except one. The owner of Dentek. Oh yea, I do know the CA governor. Both are far from intelligent. They both came from wealthy families, and had sympathetic fathers financing,planning,inventing prototypes in every move in their lives. Intelligence had nothing to do with their success.

6. What makes Bezos special is it sounds like he didn't come from money, and didn't have the sterotypical wealthy father.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#88

Post by troutwine »

newsbinator wrote: post #84
LarrySellers wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I don't know why people expect art to make sense. They accept the fact that life doesn't make sense.” -- David Lynch

> They accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. Most people, in most cultures, don't accept it as fact that life doesn't make sense. What % of people would agree with the statement "everything happens for a reason"? Or even "because God did it". Of those who don't think everything happens for a reason (i.e. life makes sense... to someone), the vast majority nevertheless believe we live in a universe of physical…

What sense does getting wiped out by a plague make?

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#89

Post by mixmastamyk »

twelvechairs wrote: post #85
version_five wrote: post #47

One thing I'd add to the article is that a key feature of the Marlow novels is their meandering plots. I read once that Raymond Chandler stories are about the journey, not the destination, so basically you're following Marlow around as he does stuff (that is mentioned in the article). The stuff he does is locally interesting, and it makes the stories good. But judging the stories based on their plot synopsis doesn't…

TV has shifted this way, where its now common to have long running series where different writers, directors, etc. across every episode. Everything is logical in its immediate context but can seem illogical in the broader context of the entire series/show.

Yes, lots of characters change at random, just when you think you know them.

Re: The Big Sleep: The most baffling film ever made?

#90

Post by nl »

yupper32 wrote: post #33
ubermonkey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a deeply predictable (and pedestrian) take, and I 100% expected to see it here (as I expect to see it in any technical forum). Highly technical people -- developers, engineers, etc -- are much more likely (at least in my experience) to react negatively to nonlinear storytelling. Further, the reaction is almost never "wow, not for me" but instead "THIS IS STUPID". It's essentially the equivalent of walking thr…

I really dislike this take. Listen, it's fine if people enjoy nonlinear storytelling to make it an "experience" or a canvas with a few straight lines painted on it. But it is stupid, to follow your quote. If you're using devices to make a story more difficult to follow, just for the sake of making it more difficult to follow for the "challenge", then that's stupid. I'm not claiming The Big Sleep is even in this categ…

> Listen, it's fine if people enjoy nonlinear storytelling to make it an "experience" or a canvas with a few straight lines painted on it. But it is stupid, to follow your quote.

Why?

Mondrian painting are the most beautiful, calming pieces of art I know of (just look at Composition C (No. III) with Red, Yellow and Blue)

> If you're using devices to make a story more difficult to follow, just for the sake of making it more difficult to follow for the "challenge", then that's stupid.

Why?

Other things use devices to make them more challenging, and this is generally accepted as entertaining. Think harder levels in video games, rules in sports and games etc.

Why should stories be any different?

And it should be noted there are different levels to this. For example, Shakespeare tells one story on the surface, but if that is all you understand then you miss the glory of Shakespeare: his use of literary devices to tell other, hidden stories underneath what you think you are reading.

You seem to be using the word "stupid" to mean something like "non-obvious". That isn't what "stupid" means.

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