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First town in America to ban new gas stations

theguardian.com

51–60 of 124 posts

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#51

I don't understand. There has been a gas shortage and waiting lines since the pandemic. Why would you go and outright ban gas stations? If we want less CO2 emissions we have to raise or introduce CO2 prices.

The gas shortage was because of a gas pipeline hack, for which more or less gas stations would not really have had an impact since the stations themselves were empty for lack of gas being transported.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#52
post #40

What does this accomplish? A quick search on Google Maps shows this city (Petaluma, CA) already has at least 18 gas stations. Gas stations don't cause people to consume more gas - they are built because people are already consuming the gas. People will certainly just travel a little bit further for their fuel. Nobody is going to buy a new EV because of this. Even for the few people looking to buy a new vehicle there…

If people just took out loans and dumped their savings into the stock market, they too could afford a trendy car with a long tail pipe that relies on lithium mined overseas and is a hassle to repair. /s

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#54
post #18

as someone who rides a motorcycle this sort of legislation is infuriating. gas stations are food, rest, and a chance to get my bearings with a map. Frankly California's more gilded counties like Sonoma have a perverse incentive to reduce gas stations: it reduces congregation and attendance by the homeless. This feels like the "cashless" argument playing out all over again. Sure, its perhaps easier and more efficient…

I frankly have become very suspicious of arguments that go "poor people who are not me also happen to like this thing I like, so any attempt to curtail it is discriminatory." Is there something about a gas pump that makes poor people more likely to congregate than a similar facility without? An electric charging station, for instance, would presumably be similar and might even be more likely to have places where you…

A high turnover rate of strangers handling their wallets. Also a ginormous sunshade and legal occupation can be obtained for a $1 soda or lotto ticket.

Superchargers have nothing to do with financial transactions. You can't buy a soda or lotto ticket and claim to belong there.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#55
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). Is this really a sacrifice? I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. I would be more…

I live in a suburb of a medium sized city. It’s not particularly dense, probably slightly lower density than the median American lives in. My generation Z neighbors (I have two) are very happy to live without a car. They live within three miles of their jobs and use electric scooters for commuting. They have their food and consumer goods shipped to their house. They say that they don’t need to drive anywhere, and the…

What is the real estate square foot cost where you live?

Maybe more media-visible Americans are living in such areas now, but supply is extremely tight. A lot of these neighborhoods tend to be older, being poor in previous decades, and now those poor people are getting pushed out to the suburbs where cars are a great required expense.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#56
post #18

as someone who rides a motorcycle this sort of legislation is infuriating. gas stations are food, rest, and a chance to get my bearings with a map. Frankly California's more gilded counties like Sonoma have a perverse incentive to reduce gas stations: it reduces congregation and attendance by the homeless. This feels like the "cashless" argument playing out all over again. Sure, its perhaps easier and more efficient…

Without society there would be no motorcycles, no gas and no roads. You have to work with society if you want nice things. When change happens, sometimes you benefit disproportionately and sometimes you suffer. It's just the way it is.

You don't actually need to fill up with gas in order to stop and eat. This doesn't seem as bad as you seem to think. It's just change.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#57
post #18

as someone who rides a motorcycle this sort of legislation is infuriating. gas stations are food, rest, and a chance to get my bearings with a map. Frankly California's more gilded counties like Sonoma have a perverse incentive to reduce gas stations: it reduces congregation and attendance by the homeless. This feels like the "cashless" argument playing out all over again. Sure, its perhaps easier and more efficient…

So if the gas stations go away, why wouldn't they be replaced by convenience stores/rest stops? Like how does "we're getting rid of the gas pumps" ONLY translate to "we're getting rid of all the other revenue generating facility that accompanies that gas pump"?

I could MAYBE understand the argument that the pumps help subsidize the cost of the convenience store and you'd see X% of locations close with no replacement taking over the location, but the whole point is that we have to make a choice between jobs + status quo or change + less climate impact.

TL;dr- I'm pretty sure we have enough gas stations at this point to meet demand.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#58
post #19
post #2

We all know that to combat climate change sacrifices will need to be made like fewer cars and smaller houses (for compact, accessible cities). I can't see the US ever being willing to make these sacrifices though. If you compare the $/sqft for housing in the US vs. Europe the difference is shocking (even in big cities like Seattle vs. London), same for gasoline prices, etc. The US has become accustomed to unparallele…

I don't think you can reasonably compare "European" house sizes using London as an example. The UK is small and ancient. We literally don't have the land necessary for building big houses in cities. There wasn't much land to start with, and changing the use of land that's had buildings on it for 1000 years is incredibly hard. The same is true, with less of a supply limitation, for most cities across Europe. Houses we…

The issue in America is that a lot of zoning has minimum lot sizes that are fairly large. If the minimum parcel size is 460 sq m and the parcel can legally only have one house on it, the house might as well be built to take advantage.

Where they are legal (very small percentage of land area), America's tight housing markets see smaller townhomes and apartments sprout like weeds.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#59

Lots of towns have already done this. Berkeley did it years ago. It doesn't matter at all. The fact that Berkeley bans certain land uses means that the town next door, Emeryville, falls prey to fiscalization and simply makes their whole urban strategy be making money off of encouraging all the things Berkeley bans. The effect is that there are probably more gas stations than Emeryville than there would otherwise be i…

> It doesn't matter at all

That's not true: it will cause an inconvenience to Berkeley residents using gas-powered vehicles. It's not definitive, but it has an effect on stimulating energy transition.

Re: First town in America to ban new gas stations

#60

>is the tine turning? No. Because it will be quite a few years before anyone even starts noticing any reduction in gas stations. I think it's more of a political posturing than an indication of an emerging trend.

Which is exactly what the tide turning analogy is supposed to convey. It's difficult to notice when the tide turns, you notice it some 3 hours later which is when it's coming in/out at its fastest rate.
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