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Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

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Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#261

Post by poink »

tomlin wrote: post #242
iamelgringo wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all my years working in health care as an ER and trauma nurse, I learned one thing: Do the right thing for the patient. If the doctor is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If the hospital is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If a police officer is doing the wrong thing... do the right thing for the patient. The ultimate policy is... Do the right thing for the patient. AirBnb.…

I think all of this crossed their minds. Honestly, I don't think Airbnb wants to leave this person hanging. If they pay for this incident, they are possibly opening the door for the kinds of schemes people pull on insurance. You know, the whole "rob my place and I'll collect the insurance" schemes. If Airbnb pays for this incident, they effectively become an insurance company. Maybe what they should do is offer some…

"If Airbnb pays for this incident, they effectively become an insurance company."

If they don't, they very well might become a non-company.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#262

Post by mbreese »

brianchesky wrote: post #186
edw519 wrote: post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

we are standing by, and we just contacted her again telling her that we will do whatever we can to help.

Here's my unsolicited advice: stop talking. You aren't going to win this by talking about it here of all places. Have a meeting today - all hands - and figure out what you are going to do. Don't invite your lawyer. Two agenda items: 1)how do we fix this for her? 2) how do we fix this problem with the model (insurance, renter background check)? Privately fix #1, publicly fix #2.

Don't talk publicly about what you are doing to help her until it is all done.

Do this right and your company is set. Do this wrong, and your company is dead.

Good luck!

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#263

Post by hnal943 »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #71

It's a sad state of affairs, to be sure. But the answers are simple, although it's going to be a real pain for AirBnB's "frictionless" transaction model. 1) You MUST put down a CREDIT CARD. Not a bank card, not a debit card, not a prepaid card. No plasticky no rentee. A major credit card to make a transaction. No bitcoin, no cash, no BS. Airbnb then puts a hold equal to transaction cost + 20% for the duration of the…

Do you think in this instance putting down a credit card would have helped? The vandals were obviously criminals intent on abusing a renter through the airbnb service. Wouldn't they have simply used a stolen credit card number?

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#264

Post by blumentopf »

What's totally missing here is some kind of compassionate reaction from Airbnb.

Regarding that joke in the FAQ about guests stealing the grand piano: I think it's okay to make such a joke IF AND ONLY IF the reaction to a case like this is in the same vein: The minute they learned about this ordeal, they should have stopped working, cancel all meetings and help her. And if that means mopping her floors themselves then do it. They did the opposite, they acted greedily and stingily and thereby didn't just let down the girl, but everyone in the startup community who admired and rooted for them.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#266

Post by jonhohle »

a3camero wrote: post #213
wheels wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance (and by extension dealing with insurance fraud) for this sort of thing is a solved problem. They don't need to do it in house. They just pick up a policy from one of the institutional insurers and pass on the cost with a markup. Edit: To clarify, by "this sort of thing" I don't mean "Airbnb like businesses". There's nothing particularly novel about insuring homes, their contents or vacation rentals. An inst…

I doubt it is a solved problem or AirBNB would be using it. Imagine what the negotiations would be like. They need insurance for: -An open-ended number of people worldwide (constantly changing) -Any sort of property from shitty apartments all the way to fancy houses (no estimate of value possible, requires appraisers) -Damage/theft caused by people with unverified identities (all they have is CC, stolen?) -Any and al…

Imagine negotiating insurance for a mobile business where people are flung around 30+ feet in the air with no safety harness, others stick their heads in the mouths of lions or are "sat" on by elephants, and still others stick flaming swords into their throats. Meanwhile, children are riding on devices assembled by people who may not have a high school diploma (at least that's the impression I get). These businesses are generally very well insured.

There are insurance companies that deal specifically with unique, high risk insurance situations that are only applicable to very few clients. You don't buy these policies from Nationwide (directly), but they likely have a subsidiary which handles policies like this. In turn, those subsidiaries take out insurance policies on the high risk policy (it's turtles all the way down).

Disclaimer, my FIL used to work for an insurance company who dealt with high risk policies.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#267

Post by rdouble »

This story is beginning to smell fishy. I was burglarized in a similar, but not as extreme manner. My landlord was involved immediately. Why is there no mention of the property owner in any of these stories?

In my case, the "investigation" was over in about 1.25 days. There's not much the police can do. SFPD would not spend 2 months investigating a burglary in an illegal sublet.

Furthermore, there are no photos of the damage, the victim is anonymous, and there is no description of the neighborhood or apartment complex. If someone was bent on catching the burglars, more info would be disseminated, not less. The articles are written as though the author has an axe to grind with AirBNB, not that she wants to catch the thieves.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#268

Post by nathanb »

tomlin wrote: post #242
iamelgringo wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all my years working in health care as an ER and trauma nurse, I learned one thing: Do the right thing for the patient. If the doctor is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If the hospital is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If a police officer is doing the wrong thing... do the right thing for the patient. The ultimate policy is... Do the right thing for the patient. AirBnb.…

I think all of this crossed their minds. Honestly, I don't think Airbnb wants to leave this person hanging. If they pay for this incident, they are possibly opening the door for the kinds of schemes people pull on insurance. You know, the whole "rob my place and I'll collect the insurance" schemes. If Airbnb pays for this incident, they effectively become an insurance company. Maybe what they should do is offer some…

AirBnB are on record saying one of their principles is that people are generally good. They have to believe this at some level or else their entire business model would be untenable. They cannot on one side claim that AirBnB is a safe proposition because most people are good and on the other refuse to take care of their customers because of the one-in-a-million who might cheat them.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#269

Post by hnal943 »

Lucadg wrote: post #56
cageface wrote: post #41

In our rush to disintermediate old industries we may discover that some of those intermediaries are there for a reason.

Same feeling here. There's a lot "social" can do to improve the accommodation industry, but it may have gone a bit too fast. However it ends for airbnb, the idea is sound and will survive/come back, but I always had the feeling that was going too fast and too smoothly. Back to reality.

I think this proves that the model of cheap, social housing will not work. The only way to provide the level of security that this woman is demanding is to dramatically increase the cost of the service or the housing to cover the risk.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#270

Post by prostoalex »

wheels wrote: post #184
scott_s wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you do this as a matter of policy, you are open to fraud. Now you have to spend a significant amount of your resources on fraud detection - perhaps most of them. That's what I mean by they become an insurance company; their day-to-day operation would be indistinguishable fromt that of an insurance company. Both ebay and PayPay went through this, and that's what they spend most of their time doing. But ebay and P…

Insurance (and by extension dealing with insurance fraud) for this sort of thing is a solved problem. They don't need to do it in house. They just pick up a policy from one of the institutional insurers and pass on the cost with a markup. Edit: To clarify, by "this sort of thing" I don't mean "Airbnb like businesses". There's nothing particularly novel about insuring homes, their contents or vacation rentals. An inst…

Sure, if you install a surveillance system or have a doorman/reception area, you can get a decent insurance rate. Also, you have to buy insurance in 6/12 month chunks, even if you rent out the place for 3 days a month.

All of a sudden the rates that greedy hotel chains charge don't seem so greedy.

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