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A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

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Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#71

Post by inter_netuser »

torgoguys wrote: post #65
inter_netuser wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so they would lose a legal challenge to the product's safety....but it's safe? How does that follow? Liability is just a cost of doing business. You ever had D&O insurance? Right now in blockchain businesses some get quoted 10+% for coverage, i.e. 100k+ for 1 mil in coverage. Many simply forego the insurance because it's too expensive, and assume the risk. The product in question had too little upside to offset the l…

> so they would lose a legal challenge to the product's safety....but it's safe? How does that follow? You convince a jury that it is unsafe. Happens all the time. There are many reasons this is easier than it should be. > The product in question had too little upside to offset the liability, that's all. The vaccine had a ton of upside...for those receiving it. Like most vaccines, it's not a hugely profitable endeavo…

How much would you pay out of pocket to get the vaccine?

People do group buys for all sorts of nutraceticals, small molecules, and even some biologics.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#72

Post by resoluteteeth »

inter_netuser wrote: post #61
resoluteteeth wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if it was impossible for anyone to buy a car ever because when cars first went on the market 59 out of 1.4 million people who bought them got joint pain that may not have even been connected with the cars.

so the product was so unprofitable it couldn't cover liability insurance with only 59 claims out of 1 millionn units sold? seems it was just not viable commercially.

If we've created a system where vaccines aren't commercially viable, that seems like a problem in itself.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#73

Post by echelon »

jf22 wrote: post #63
somehnacct3757 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deer themselves are a problem in the northeast. They are greatly overpopulated and eat the native understory, preventing the next generation of trees from growing past adolescence. As the existing trees slowly die, there will be none younger to replace them. This also clears out the competition to the benefit of non-native plants, which the deer don't eat. Some of these plants are invasive, such as japanese barbe…

I'm sure deer populations have been higher in the past and the forests survived.

There's nothing unethical with culling an overpopulated species. We do it to deer, wolves, etc. all the time via hunting permits.

As long as wild biology subsists on killing and eating, there's no problem with humans doing the same in order to restore balance.

It also helps to reintroduce natural predators when possible. But in absence of that strategy, humans can do the job too.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#74

Post by inter_netuser »

contravariant wrote: post #54

> a relatively uncommon treatment for Lyme in which doctors siphon some blood, blast it with electromagnetic waves, and then drip it back into the bloodstream That's a weird description, depending on what kind of waves this could be anything from microwaving the blood to blasting it with UV or just shining some rainbow coloured lights on it.

transfusion blood gets gamma irradiated. maybe that?

also there was some research on UV-C irradiated blood.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#75

Post by jemurray »

I know this is about Lyme disease, but let me add another word of caution while we are discussing ticks. Two years ago I was bit by the Lone Star tick. Since that time I developed an allergy to all red meat. It was hard to diagnose and a few of the doctors I worked with along the years still don’t believe its true. If your interested in learning more search for Alpha Gal. There is an excellent Radio Lab podcast about it.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#76

Post by jacksonkmarley »

inter_netuser wrote: post #57
yodsanklai wrote: post #46

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_Lyme_disease > Chronic Lyme disease (CLD) is the name used by some people with "a broad array of illnesses or symptom complexes for which there is no reproducible or convincing scientific evidence of any relationship to Borrelia burgdorferi infection" to describe their condition and their beliefs about its cause. (TLDR; lot of misinformation about Lyme disease)

Take a look: https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/628045/fneur-12-6... These are spirochetes in the brain/spine of a dead patient who had proven lyme diagnosis, has been given the standard treatment in the past, never recovered, developed dementia, died. Full study: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.6280... The wikipedia article you are quoting is outdated misinformation, please stop sprea…

From that study:

> These results however do not clarify whether the Borrelia infection had anything to do with her progressive neurodegenerative disorder

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#77

Post by torgoguys »

spicymaki wrote: post #27
mschuster91 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in the US legal system that uses laypeople as judges ("juries"), lawsuits tend to be won by those who put on the best play for the juries, not by those who have the better arguments on their side like in Continental Europe. And to make matters worse, sometimes juries go for obscenely excessive damages against companies to "make a point" - just look at the McDonald's coffee case.

The McDonald’s coffee lawsuit was not frivolous[1][2]. The company served coffee at extremely dangerous temperatures. The claimant had severe third degree burns and only wanted McDonald’s to pay for her medical expenses. McDonald’s had a least 700 complaints about the problem before the lawsuit and did nothing until after the lawsuit. Please stop repeating corporate propaganda. [1] https://youtu.be/s_jaU5V9FUg [2] ht…

>The company served coffee at extremely dangerous temperatures.

Yes, it was frivolous to many peoples eyes, including mine. McDonald's still serves their coffee at the same temperatures today. They just changed the cups and added warnings at least according to the Wikipedia article on the case.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#78

Post by giantg2 »

somehnacct3757 wrote: post #58
jankotek wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better to eradicate ticks.

The deer themselves are a problem in the northeast. They are greatly overpopulated and eat the native understory, preventing the next generation of trees from growing past adolescence. As the existing trees slowly die, there will be none younger to replace them. This also clears out the competition to the benefit of non-native plants, which the deer don't eat. Some of these plants are invasive, such as japanese barbe…

The mice are the main component to the lyme lifecycle. There is a researcher working to give mice immunity using crispr.

Generally, the deer are only overpopulating (at least to the extent you describe) in areas that aren't hunted, which also tend to be highly populated. It seems many people enjoy seeing the deer in their backyards and don't want their almost-pets to be killed, especially if it means it might have to be done on their land. How do you propose dealing with that opposition?

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#79

Post by akyu »

yodsanklai wrote: post #68
inter_netuser wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look: https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/628045/fneur-12-6... These are spirochetes in the brain/spine of a dead patient who had proven lyme diagnosis, has been given the standard treatment in the past, never recovered, developed dementia, died. Full study: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.6280... The wikipedia article you are quoting is outdated misinformation, please stop sprea…

I'd encourage anyone interested to do their own research. The scientific consensus today is what is stated in the linked wikipedia article. There are lot of myths around Lyme disease. https://eu.delawareonline.com/story/sponsor-story/nemours/20... Myth #5: Lyme disease can have debilitating, lifelong effects. Fact: When treated with antibiotics, Lyme disease, at any stage of presentation, is curable. Myth #6: My chil…

>The scientific consensus today is what is stated in the linked wikipedia article.

Simply saying this doesn't make it true. This is not true and that Wikipedia article is outdated.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#80

Post by torgoguys »

bkallus wrote: post #29
mschuster91 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in the US legal system that uses laypeople as judges ("juries"), lawsuits tend to be won by those who put on the best play for the juries, not by those who have the better arguments on their side like in Continental Europe. And to make matters worse, sometimes juries go for obscenely excessive damages against companies to "make a point" - just look at the McDonald's coffee case.

The McDonald's coffee case is often cited this way, but I think a spilled a coffee that causes third-degree burns and necessitates skin grafts is probably too hot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restau...

The article you linked to notes they still serve the coffee at the same temperturea today, just changing the cups and adding warnings. Probably not too hot or they would have changed it after the lawsuit.
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