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U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#241

Post by Karunamon »

Robotbeat wrote: post #51
cmpb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. One feature my car has is to pull me back into the lane when I veer out of it (Subaru's lane keep assist). That is still incremental improvement towards "full self driving". I agree, however, that Tesla's Autopilot is not functional enough, and any tool designed to allow humans to remove their hands from the wheel should not require their immediate attention in any way.

Tesla’s autopilot does not allow you to remove your hands from the wheel. You must keep them on, and apply torque occasionally, to keep it engaged.

In reality, it'll let you get away with going handsfree for upwards of 30 seconds. That's more than long enough to lose your attention.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#242

Post by kwhitefoot »

zemptime wrote: post #165
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

I drive a lot across Europe: as in, really a lot, long trip across several countries, several times a year. I drive enough on the highways to know a few scary situations, like the truck driver in a big curve slightly deviating out of his lane and "pushing" me dangerously close to the median strip for example. To me driving requires paying constant attention to the road and being always ready to act swiftly: I just do…

I see a lot of comments here postulating how autopilot is a terribly designed feature from people who appear not to be speaking from first hand experience and now I feel compelled to comment, exactly following that HN pattern someone posted about how HN discussions go. That said thanks for keeping this discussion focused & framed as a system design one, doesn't feel like a Tesla hate train so I feel comfortable hoppi…

What I always tell people is that together me and my car drive better than either of us on their own (Tesla Model S 70D, 2015, AP1.5).

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#243

Post by joewadcan »

This will end up being a very good thing for Tesla. They were able to operate semi-autonomous vehicles for years while they iterated through software versions. They are faaar from done, but a likely outcome will be more stringent regulation on companies that want to do a similar approach of putting the betas in customers hands. This makes it way harder for automotive companies to get the same leeway, putting Tesla further ahead.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#244

Post by Kaytaro »

DrBenCarson wrote: post #214
jeffnappi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own a Model Y and am a pretty heavy Autopilot user. You have to regularly give input on the steering wheel and if you fail a few times it won't let you re-engage until you park and start again. Personally Autopilot has actually made driving safer for me... I think there's likely abuse of the system though that Tesla could work harder to prevent.

I personally think the issue boils down to their use of the term "Autopilot" for a product that is not Autpilot (and never will be with the sensor array they're using IMO.) They are sending multiple signals that this car can drive itself (going so far as charging people money explicitly for the "self-driving" feature) when it cannot in the slightest do much more than stay straight on an empty highway. They should be…

Autopilot is precisely the correct term - An autopilot is a system used to control the path of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilots do not replace human operators.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#245

Post by AndrewBissell »

zemptime wrote: post #165
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

I drive a lot across Europe: as in, really a lot, long trip across several countries, several times a year. I drive enough on the highways to know a few scary situations, like the truck driver in a big curve slightly deviating out of his lane and "pushing" me dangerously close to the median strip for example. To me driving requires paying constant attention to the road and being always ready to act swiftly: I just do…

I see a lot of comments here postulating how autopilot is a terribly designed feature from people who appear not to be speaking from first hand experience and now I feel compelled to comment, exactly following that HN pattern someone posted about how HN discussions go. That said thanks for keeping this discussion focused & framed as a system design one, doesn't feel like a Tesla hate train so I feel comfortable hoppi…

The problem is, even if your subjective idea of how Autopilot affects your own driving is correct, it appears not to be the case for a significant subset of Tesla drivers, enough that they've been plowing into emergency vehicles at such an elevated rate as to cause NHTSA to open an investigation.

Also, your subjective impressions may be what they are simply because you have not yet encountered the unlucky set of conditions which would radically change your view, as was surely the case for all the drivers involved in these sorts of incidents.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#246

Post by jeofken »

sandworm101 wrote: post #74
Robotbeat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually disagree. (And before you respond, please read my post because it’s not a trivial point.) The fact that an huge formal investigation happened with just a single casualty is proof that it may actually be superior for safety in the long-term (when combined with feedback from regulators and government investigators). One death in conventional vehicles is irrelevant. But because of the high profile of Tesla’s…

Then why not flip the scheme. Instead of have the human as backup to the machine, make the machine backup the human. Let the human do all the driving and have the robot jump in whenever the human makes a mistake. Telemetry can then record all the situations where the human and the machine disagreed. That should provide all the necessary data, with the benefit of the robot perhaps preventing many accidents. Of course…

On most or all roads below 100km/h autopilot won’t allow speeding, and therefore I drive at the limit, which I know I would not have done if I controlled it. It also stays in the lane better than I do, keeps distance better, and more. Sometimes it’s wonky when the street lines are unclear. It’s not perfect but a better driver than I am in 80% of cases.

My insurance company gives a lower rate if you buy the full autopilot option, and that to me indicates they agree it drives better than I, or other humans, do.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#247

Post by kwhitefoot »

okareaman wrote: post #137

When I was learning to drive, my grandmother drilled into me to never swerve for an animal that jumps out in front of the car. This saved me when I was driving by the Grand Canyon and jack rabbits kept jumping, out of nowhere seemingly, in front of my car. I drilled "never swerve" into my son and it saved him on a mountain road when he hit a deer. He didn't go into the trees. When I drove in Alaska I asked why the fo…

When my wife learned to drive in Norway she was instructed never to swerve to avoid a collision regardless of whether it was an elk, a dog or a human being in front of the car, just to stamp hard on the brake.

The rationale being that swerving most likely puts more people at risk more of the time. Especially true here where leaving the road often means either colliding with the granite cliff wall or ending up in the fjord or lake.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#248

Post by dheera »

gundmc wrote: post #3

This is why I believe the approach of incremental improvement towards full self driving is fundamentally flawed. These advanced driver assist tools are good enough to lull users into a false sense of security. No amount of "but our terms and conditions say you need to always pay attention!" will overcome human nature building that trust and dependence.

Is it? Tesla is still alive because they're selling cars.

It's just that the companies that are NOT doing incremental approaches are largely at the mercy of some investors who don't know a thing about self-driving, and they may die at any time.

I agree with you that it is technically flawed, but it may still be viable in the end. At least their existence is not dependent on the mercy of some fools who don't get it, they just sell cars to stay alive.

That's one of the major problems of today's version of capitalism -- it encourages technically flawed ways to achieve scientific advancement.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#249

Post by jazzyjackson »

joewadcan wrote: post #243

This will end up being a very good thing for Tesla. They were able to operate semi-autonomous vehicles for years while they iterated through software versions. They are faaar from done, but a likely outcome will be more stringent regulation on companies that want to do a similar approach of putting the betas in customers hands. This makes it way harder for automotive companies to get the same leeway, putting Tesla fu…

This is good for Bitcoin

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#250

Post by [deleted] »

gundmc wrote: post #3

This is why I believe the approach of incremental improvement towards full self driving is fundamentally flawed. These advanced driver assist tools are good enough to lull users into a false sense of security. No amount of "but our terms and conditions say you need to always pay attention!" will overcome human nature building that trust and dependence.

[deleted]
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