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U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#211

Post by cranekam »

zip1234 wrote: post #179
aembleton wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, these cars know the speed limits for the road Does it always get this correct, or does it sometimes read a 30mph sign on a side road and then slow the car on the motorway down to that speed?

I'm not sure how the cars know the speed limit. Maybe someone else knows? My guess is combo of GPS/camera to position correctly on road and the lookup of known speed limit data. Perhaps it reads signs though?

The rental car I am using now certainly a) reads road signs for speed limit information, b) is definitely fooled by signs on off ramps etc.

It’s hard to imagine how speed limit systems would work without some sort of vision capabilities — a database of speed limits would never be up to date with roadworks and so on.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#212

Post by TacticalCoder »

zemptime wrote: post #165
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

I drive a lot across Europe: as in, really a lot, long trip across several countries, several times a year. I drive enough on the highways to know a few scary situations, like the truck driver in a big curve slightly deviating out of his lane and "pushing" me dangerously close to the median strip for example. To me driving requires paying constant attention to the road and being always ready to act swiftly: I just do…

I see a lot of comments here postulating how autopilot is a terribly designed feature from people who appear not to be speaking from first hand experience and now I feel compelled to comment, exactly following that HN pattern someone posted about how HN discussions go. That said thanks for keeping this discussion focused & framed as a system design one, doesn't feel like a Tesla hate train so I feel comfortable hoppi…

There's zero Tesla hate here and certainly zero EV hate here, on the contrary: I just feel the interior build quality on the Tesla could be a bit better but I'm sure they'll get there.

I wouldn't want my, strangely enough upvoted a lot, comment, to be mistaken for Tesla hate. I like what they're doing. I just think the auto-pilot shouldn't give a false sense of security.

> I've not hit animals and dodged random things rolling/blowing into the road at a moment's notice.

> I don't think it's possible to avoid all car crashes no matter how well you drive.

Same here... And animals are my worst nightmare: there are videos on YouTube just terrifying.

For I do regularly watch crash videos to remind me of some of the dangers on the road.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#213

Post by hermitdev »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #132
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

I drive a lot across Europe: as in, really a lot, long trip across several countries, several times a year. I drive enough on the highways to know a few scary situations, like the truck driver in a big curve slightly deviating out of his lane and "pushing" me dangerously close to the median strip for example. To me driving requires paying constant attention to the road and being always ready to act swiftly: I just do…

It can be really jarring too when a car behaves differently than you expect: I regularly use cruise control on my Kia, which makes driving much less stressful. It keeps the car centered in the lane, more or less turns the car with the road, and of course, matches the speed of the car in front of it with reasonable stopping distance. I wouldn't call it "self-driving" by any means, but if not for the alert that gets ti…

I was thinking about this the other day - driving in construction. The town I live in is currently doing water main replacement. So, lots of torn up roads, closed lanes and even single-lane only with a flagger alternating directions. No amount of safety cones will make it obvious what's going on.

How do automated systems deal with flaggers? Visibility of the stop/slow sign isn't sufficient to make a determination on whether it's safe to proceed (not to mention "stop" changes meaning here, entirely, from a typical stop sign). Often, whether or not you can proceed comes down to hand gestures from the flagger proper.

Not that I expect any reasonable driver to be using something like autopilot through such a situation, but we've also seen plenty of evidence that there are unreasonable drivers currently using these systems, as well.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#214

Post by DrBenCarson »

jeffnappi wrote: post #32
Waterluvian wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Subaru Forester base model with lane keeping and adaptive cruise control. I need to be touching the wheel and applying some force to it or it begins yelling at me and eventually brings me slowly to a stop. I’ve had it for a year now and I cannot perceive of a way, without physically altering the system (like hanging a weight from the wheel maybe?) that would allow me to stop being an active participant. I th…

I own a Model Y and am a pretty heavy Autopilot user. You have to regularly give input on the steering wheel and if you fail a few times it won't let you re-engage until you park and start again. Personally Autopilot has actually made driving safer for me... I think there's likely abuse of the system though that Tesla could work harder to prevent.

I personally think the issue boils down to their use of the term "Autopilot" for a product that is not Autpilot (and never will be with the sensor array they're using IMO.)

They are sending multiple signals that this car can drive itself (going so far as charging people money explicitly for the "self-driving" feature) when it cannot in the slightest do much more than stay straight on an empty highway.

They should be forced to change the name of the self-driving features, I personally think "Backseat Driver" would be more appropriate.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#215

Post by kbshacker »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

I drive a lot across Europe: as in, really a lot, long trip across several countries, several times a year. I drive enough on the highways to know a few scary situations, like the truck driver in a big curve slightly deviating out of his lane and "pushing" me dangerously close to the median strip for example. To me driving requires paying constant attention to the road and being always ready to act swiftly: I just do…

Exactly, the only driving assistance feature I use is adaptive cruise control, and I don't have plans to use anything more. If I trust autonomous systems too much, I would not be ready when it matters.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#216

Post by Retric »

SpelingBeeChamp wrote: post #210
Retric wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only overall numbers actually mater here, if self driving is off then that’s just the default risk from human driving in those conditions. Talk to your insurance company, they can give you a break down by make, model, and trim levels.

I am pretty sure that if I call Geico they will not provide me with those data. Am I wrong?

Mine did, but I don’t use Geico. If they don’t give you the underlying data you can at least compare rates to figure out relative risks.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#217

Post by jdavis703 »

merrywhether wrote: post #204
jdavis703 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both airplanes and trains have automated “assist.” At least in the case of WMATA they give up on automatic train control after a fatal crash.

This is a misrepresentation of the dumpster fire that was the WMATA train situation. Yes, the fatal crash was the last straw, but the root problem was not the automation system but rather the complete lack of maintenance that led to its inability to work properly. Congress refusing to fund maintenance and then falling behind 10-15 years on it lead to all kinds of systems failing. The fatal fire in the blue line tunne…

I don’t blame the operator for the crash. The other train was behind a blind curve and she hit the emergency brake within a reasonable amount of time given what she could see. However the speeds of the system were set too high for the operator to safely stop because they assumed the ATC would work perfectly.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#218

Post by rad_gruchalski »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

I drive a lot across Europe: as in, really a lot, long trip across several countries, several times a year. I drive enough on the highways to know a few scary situations, like the truck driver in a big curve slightly deviating out of his lane and "pushing" me dangerously close to the median strip for example. To me driving requires paying constant attention to the road and being always ready to act swiftly: I just do…

The most useful button on my car is the speed limiter. Everything else can go.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#219

Post by rad_gruchalski »

aembleton wrote: post #177
zip1234 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, these cars know the speed limits for the road but let you set cruise control/self driving above the speed limit. Seems like for safety purposes that should not be allowed. Not only are people paying significantly less attention but they also are speeding.

> Also, these cars know the speed limits for the road Does it always get this correct, or does it sometimes read a 30mph sign on a side road and then slow the car on the motorway down to that speed?

Different manufacturers probably use different systems but no. BMW attempts to read the speed limit signs using the frontal camera with a mix of some sort of stored info - it knows that the speed limit is about to change (Mobileye?), but it is very often that it won't catch a sign in the bend or when the weather is bad. Also, it does not recognize time restricted speed limits, for example 30kph from 7:00 to 17:00 Monday to Friday so it would keep driving 30kph outside of those hours while 50kph is allowed. In some places in Germany, it does not recognize the city limits and carries on showing 70kph for a kilometer longer than it should.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#220

Post by rad_gruchalski »

sandworm101 wrote: post #152
CrazyStat wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Want safety? How about a Tesla that is electronically incapable of speeding. That would be unsafe in many situations. If the flow of traffic is substantially above the speed limit--which it often is--being unable to match it increases the risk of accident. This is known as the Solomon curve [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Ok. Electronically incapable of driving more than 10% faster than other traffic.

How do you know which traffic is "the other traffic"? So basically - there's no top limit.
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