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The Bullshit

walterkirn.substack.com

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Re: The Bullshit

#171

Post by denton-scratch »

wombatmobile wrote: post #60
irjustin wrote: post #59

Many things that used to be "the good old way" have changed. Every generation things the upcoming generation is headed for doom. First it was TVs, then it was video games, now it's social media. I understand the sentiment and know it's easy to think that that one time in the past was the best way. Hell I even think about those few years with that group of people were "the best", nostalgia. But if we always look at th…

It's easy to test that proposition. Wait 30 years and then consider whether 2021 is "the good old way". I imagine it will be for most people, just like 1969 was "the good old way" for the author of TFA, and 1736 was for Ben Franklin. It's not that the bullshit was better back then, or even that times have changed, for the better or for the worse. It's just that the way the human mind works, we don't see things as the…

It's true; my grandchildren will no doubt look back on this decade as "the good old days".

But your "wait 30 years" observation puts you in a different age bracket from me; I'll be dead and gone (or reborn as an ant or something).

Re: The Bullshit

#172

Post by denton-scratch »

mns wrote: post #139
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #10

These recent substack articles which have been posted to HN are interesting. Not because the people who write the articles are intelligent and serious thinkers, because if they are, they definitely aren't showing it via their prose. They're interesting because they show exactly the sort of vacuous garbage one can expect when an amateur is is trying to make a name for themselves as a writer and has no editor to slap t…

I think it's more interesting how he's been already labeled as an amateur who's trying to make a name for himself, alt-right nut-job, covid conspiracy theorist, racist and so on, all in various comments on this page. Having grown up in a communist country, it's so disturbing, especially now, to see how whenever someone has a diverging opinion (someone could agree with you on 99 issues and have a different thought on…

So you think that in a non-"communist" country, it's unreasonable for people to express divergent opinions about stuff that's been published?

Where you have what passes for freedom of speech, the corrollary is that everyone has the freedom to oppose your views.

Re: The Bullshit

#173

Post by jollybean »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #151
jollybean wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I'm sorry for the lengthy post, but I felt giving rough examples was necessary to convey the point. It's true that some unofficial quality voices are disrupting established narratives ... but I'm sorry to say this isn't the shift that matters, because 99% of the 'unofficial sources' are considerably worse than just 'bullshit' in the press. The 'Giant Kraken Monster' of fake news is really shocking, and it's tak…

But that's how the far right operates. 1. Use narrative engineering to persuade angry, frightened, gullible people to tune in and self-select. 2. Use narrative reinforcement to make them angrier and more frightened. 3. Wind them up and point them at a target. 4. Profit politically, and possibly also financially. It doesn't matter what the narrative is. As long as it has an outgroup that can be accused of doing terrib…

"But that's how the far right operates."

The 'Far Left' operates in much the same way.

The examples I gave were just of one person's stream.

Re: The Bullshit

#174

Post by verygoodname »

Chris2048 wrote: post #164
verygoodname wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes... the "if I put everything in doubt, even the most painfully obvious things, it makes me seem smart" crowd. Here's the thing, though: if one is basing their "doubts" on random brainfarts or propaganda pieces they saw on youtube or facebook and decided to trust blindly, they're probably also doing it wrong. Skepticism that is not accompanied by critical thinking, actual knowledge, intellectual honesty and a d…

Are you accusing tomp of being part of that crowd? Seems an uncharitable interpretation of their words.

Not at all. Just criticizing his blanket statement, apparently used to justify "doubting the results of US elections": "doubting" just for the sake of doubting, particularly when it feeds into narratives being driven by trolls, disinformation and hidden agendas, doesn't do Democracy or Truth any service.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that the people in question (that are doubting the results of the US elections) are rather "skeptical" towards (so called) mainstream media, but not as much when it comes to the random crap on fox news, ann, youtube and facebook. If this is the case, then this makes them more "useful idiots" than actual "skeptics", in my opinion.

TL;DR: "Doubting blindly" (usually based on whatever Fox News or 4chan is spreading today) is as at least as bad as "trusting blindly".

Re: The Bullshit

#175

Post by jollybean »

renox wrote: post #160
donkeybeer wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this downvoted? "Official" news may not be perfect but it is without doubt that most alternatives are way worse.

Far worse, I'm not sure.. I remember when France went to war against Khadafi our newspapers/TVs were all supporting this, given the amount of direct suffering it caused I'd say that being worse than this is .. hard!

Gaddafi stated publicly that he was going to Benghazi to kill civilians, something which he had done in the past. He had a few battalions heading through the desert to do that.

He was already causing great harm, or rather, the war was causing great harm. Choosing to tilt the game board to one side over the other is definitely something to ponder, and there's definitely a lot of information to dig up and report on, but it's not a 'fake news' story.

Gaddaffi's life is actually stranger than fiction, he did kidnap young women and put them into his Harem. That's not made up. In fact, it's odd that you don't hear more 'fake news' about some world leaders who continue to have these practices because there's so much material to work with.

Re: The Bullshit

#176

Post by Chris2048 »

MagicWishMonkey wrote: post #169
Chris2048 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

domestic terrorists , attempting insurrection , without a single fatality on the capitol side? so, where was the violence?

One of the cops died of injuries sustained on site, lets stop pretending this wasn't a violent confrontation. There were plenty of serious injuries. Does this look like a peaceful protest, to you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=XajBh9oTdqI&feat...

let's not move the goalposts, we aren't arguing whether this was a "peaceful protest", we are arguing whether it was an insurrection aka a violent attempted takeover. If all it takes to overthrow the capital is the same level of violence as a civil riot, I'd say there's something wrong.

> One of the cops died of injuries sustained on site

No sources for this, so I'll assume you're referring to Officer Brian D. Sicknick. So, this might not be true: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-c...

There's a section on this in Wikipedia too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Sicknick#Subseq...

> On April 19, 2021, the office of the chief medical examiner of the District of Columbia, Francisco J. Diaz, reported that the manner of death was natural and the cause of death was "acute brainstem and cerebellar infarcts due to acute basilar artery thrombosis" (two strokes at the base of the brain stem caused by an artery clot).

Re: The Bullshit

#178

Post by wombatmobile »

denton-scratch wrote: post #171
wombatmobile wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to test that proposition. Wait 30 years and then consider whether 2021 is "the good old way". I imagine it will be for most people, just like 1969 was "the good old way" for the author of TFA, and 1736 was for Ben Franklin. It's not that the bullshit was better back then, or even that times have changed, for the better or for the worse. It's just that the way the human mind works, we don't see things as the…

It's true; my grandchildren will no doubt look back on this decade as "the good old days". But your "wait 30 years" observation puts you in a different age bracket from me; I'll be dead and gone (or reborn as an ant or something).

Same! That's why we can make these observations.

Re: The Bullshit

#179

Post by MisterBastahrd »

denton-scratch wrote: post #166
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe it's because he replied to ME and I made specific claims that he decided to doubt. Now maybe in this brave new world, some people don't consider actual lived experience to be worth a whole lot, but that's not my problem. The associate editor at the paper I did work for was making $13.50 an hour as of two years ago when I left. I know this because she overheard a conversation regarding the salary of my sub…

> when I was in the office to perform some server maintenance So this work you did "around newsrooms" and "with journalists" was sysadmin work? Have I misread that?

I was the lead developer for a custom CMS platform for a small company and literally sat in the newsroom with the reporters and worked with them on a daily basis. When I first started working for the company, it was directly after Hurricane Katrina and I did work directly FOR the paper as well as dev work because the COO had yet to justify to the CEO why they needed a full time developer, much less a team. The hours were long and the work sucked but I was hourly and got to experience their work habits and schedule.

Re: The Bullshit

#180

Post by MisterBastahrd »

sellyme wrote: post #152
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe it's because he replied to ME and I made specific claims that he decided to doubt. Now maybe in this brave new world, some people don't consider actual lived experience to be worth a whole lot, but that's not my problem. The associate editor at the paper I did work for was making $13.50 an hour as of two years ago when I left. I know this because she overheard a conversation regarding the salary of my sub…

You're still missing the point that people tell almost identical stories for just about every profession in existence. The user that replied to you wasn't even doubting you, they were just saying that it's not special.

I'm not missing the point at all. They ARE special in that unlike all those other professions he rattled off, these people aren't making jack squat.
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