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The Bullshit

walterkirn.substack.com

111–120 of 214 posts

Re: The Bullshit

#111

> What has changed is that the press used to maintain certain boundaries in the relationship, observing the incest taboo. It kept its pants zipped, at least in public. It didn’t hire ex-CIA directors, top FBI men, NSA brass, or other past and future sources to sit beside its anchors at spot-lit news-desks that blocked our view of their lower extremities. But it gave in. Incredibly, this essay about bullshit is bullsh…

To me that would just make the news like a casino slot machine that mixes some dopamine spiking wins in with some cutting losses. The most dangerous kind of bullshit, is bullshit mixed with factual, respectable reporting since it makes the bullshit all the more believable.

Re: The Bullshit

#112
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In response to something you didn't actually say - news is a classic example of when a free market may be bad, but all the alternatives people tried were much worse! And on what you did say - total agreement. The news has always been terrible. The internet has brought the cost of broadcasting so low actual honest or expert opinions and can make it out as well as the orthodoxies of people who can afford media companie…

Edit: I'm sorry for the lengthy post, but I felt giving rough examples was necessary to convey the point. It's true that some unofficial quality voices are disrupting established narratives ... but I'm sorry to say this isn't the shift that matters, because 99% of the 'unofficial sources' are considerably worse than just 'bullshit' in the press. The 'Giant Kraken Monster' of fake news is really shocking, and it's tak…

Why is this downvoted? "Official" news may not be perfect but it is without doubt that most alternatives are way worse.

Re: The Bullshit

#113
This essay has a grain of truth, but then he stretches it way too far.

The grain of truth is that mainstream news doesn't live up to the standards they like to claim they do. The news typically gets the literal basic facts right, but they tend to distort and omit facts to fit their narrative. And opinion pieces are no better than blogs.

Where he stretches too far is his claim that because the mainstream news is biased, one can simply ignore it and believe whatever one wants. The mainstream news may distort and omit facts, but they do get the literal basic facts right, so if one's worldview contradicts the literal basic facts, then that person is wrong. And opinion pieces are no better than blogs, but no worse than blogs either; so if an opinion piece makes a valid argument, that's just as valid as an argument made by any other source.

Re: The Bullshit

#114

This essay has a grain of truth, but then he stretches it way too far. The grain of truth is that mainstream news doesn't live up to the standards they like to claim they do. The news typically gets the literal basic facts right, but they tend to distort and omit facts to fit their narrative. And opinion pieces are no better than blogs. Where he stretches too far is his claim that because the mainstream news is biase…

Also people often forget that journalists are people who are paid to interpret facts, form a story, and present it so the audience doesn't have to do this intellectual work.

Re: The Bullshit

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with any field in a capitalist society, good things can only really come from those who care more about what they're working on than about any associated profit-motive. I do think that many journalists in the past operated this way. They would chase a story not because it was profitable, but because it was important. Not all of them, maybe not even most, but many. Nobody goes into journalism for the huge paychecks…

> it seems to me like there's been a shift across all sectors (not just journalism) away from professional integrity It starts with the meaning of "professional". I know of two opposite ones: 1. "Professional" as in doing high quality work, no corner cutting, having respect for the problem and the customer. 2. "Professional" as in putting business first, with the implication that any possible corner will be cut, any…

As a journalist or a publication, you do need money to survive, and if you don’t survive then how can you make a positive impact with fair reporting? The choice is then between ads, financing, and truly surviving off your subscribers by being so expensive that only the top 1% can afford to read you. Any option compromises you in some way, choose your poison to the extent possible.

Despite all that being one huge grey area ethically speaking, I still think that without professional reporting all we’d have is a network of mini-influencers misrepresenting reality into their respective bubbles on Twitter/Substack/TikTok, either for likes or to further whatever hidden agenda they or their friends may have. It’s a good thing to have a job description and years of education that ingrain certain principles[0].

It’s doubly bad, though, when you betray those principles; being a journalist is (or ought to be) much like being a cop or a doctor—for the mechanism to work properly, people should be able to trust you to act in their interest rather than own personal gain (and you should deserve the trust).

Unfortunately, I don’t see a good way for such a model to persist. We’re losing trust in traditional affordable mass media, often for good reasons.

[0] Most importantly, to be cognisant of your biases—which indeed includes selecting which story to report on, selecting which aspects to mention, etc.—and to compensate for them.

Re: The Bullshit

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with any field in a capitalist society, good things can only really come from those who care more about what they're working on than about any associated profit-motive. I do think that many journalists in the past operated this way. They would chase a story not because it was profitable, but because it was important. Not all of them, maybe not even most, but many. Nobody goes into journalism for the huge paychecks…

>They would chase a story not because it was profitable, but because it was important. Not all of them, maybe not even most, but many. If you're going to water the statement down to that level, how does it not still apply today?

I think it’s implied that the “many” today, is a much smaller “many” than before.

Re: The Bullshit

#117
post #76

Yes, of course there's bullshit everywhere. But what can you do with that knowledge exactly? Knowing that something is fallacious and full of BS doesn't give you some advantage. It makes it worse. Knowing that the system is full of lies and corrupt doesn't provide a means to get some good from that knowledge or take advantage of knowing the "truth". It's just depressing to know that the takers will always be taking,…

You could start by learning some of what is possible from the masters: politicians, the media, and their writers.

Re: The Bullshit

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> was totally real I missed that part, any chance you could quote the text where he says this?

> Immerse yourself in news of Russian plots to counterfeit presidential children’s laptops, viruses spawned in Wuhan market stalls, vast secret legions of domestic terrorists flashing one another the OK sign in shadowy parking lots behind Bass Pro Shops experiencing “temporary” inflation, and patriotic tech conglomerates purging the commons of untruths. Pretty standard alt-right nutjob. Substack is swarming with them…

There is no "was totally real" in there.

That people so often stretch the truth in these matters (while complaining about people who are clearly writing provocatively, and thus have no shortage of genuine weak points) is interesting.

Re: The Bullshit

#119
I think one of my favorite cases of bullshit was the 2 years spent investigating Trump for Russian collusion, and nothing happened despite "Anonymous sources say..." stories every week in the New York Times. The hilarious thing about watching this is is the seemingly coordinated narrative everywhere with everyone using the same phrase like they all are just repeating "the truth" from some central source where they write the teleprompter scripts.

"The walls are closing in"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1ab6uxg908

That's what the bullshit is. The almost identical media headlines and catch phrases everywhere. The 100s of identical bot tweets.

Now I just read Telegram channels and I see the enormous anti-lockdown protests taking place worldwide. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people in France right now protesting vaccine passports across the country and nobody has heard about it because of a hermetically sealed mainstream media blackout.

I come to Hacker News when I want to see what the propagandized classes who read whatever "news" app came with their phone are believing. Everyone here is pretty smart, you're just in Plato's cave looking at the shadows on the walls. The bottom line is, if you see that all your news sources are repeating each other, it may be time to diversify your news sources.

Re: The Bullshit

#120
post #46

I feel a bit privileged, and in a dangerous way, because feeling like you're special can be an illusion that is easily shattered. Here's what I mean. If I was born earlier, like say a baby boomer, I'd have less education in critical thinking, but I'd also be more protected by the news media than the time when gen Z grew up. By that I mean most of the stuff in the paper at the time was down the middle, somewhat bland…

> My university educated in laws in the UK are doubting the outcome of elections in the US. Democracy is like science. If you don’t constantly doubt at least a little bit and check the outcome continuously, but instead just trust blindly, you’re doing it wrong.

Ah, yes... the "if I put everything in doubt, even the most painfully obvious things, it makes me seem smart" crowd.

Here's the thing, though: if one is basing their "doubts" on random brainfarts or propaganda pieces they saw on youtube or facebook and decided to trust blindly, they're probably also doing it wrong.

Skepticism that is not accompanied by critical thinking, actual knowledge, intellectual honesty and a dash of humility is useless or worse.

TL;DR: Epistemology is hard, but "just doubt everything" is not it, chief.

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