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Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

theguardian.com

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Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#81

Post by yawaworht1978 »

Strongly against gitmo on every level, but good luck getting anyone accountable on the matter. Within the US , the corresponding laws have been passed prior to action, so it's "legal". For other countries, all they can do is issue an arrest warrant, which will never be respected by the US government, unless someone radically different assumes POTUS position some day.

Interesting that the guardian is reporting on this as if their very own government consists of angels and saints on these matters.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#83

Post by bildung »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #68
blunte wrote: post #2

Key figures in US military and US leadership need to be held accountable. Same as with CEOs, if you only punish the organization and not specifically the leaders, there is no disincentive to doing it again. Clearly the US is exempt from the war crimes laws, and that needs to change. But it would require leaders of other major powers/countries to push for this. But… this will never happen because almost no leader want…

The concept of an international criminal court itself is an affront to national sovereignty, and isn’t very widely supported. Among those who go along with it, they tend to stop once it creates an issue for them. The ICC primarily prosecutes the war crimes of war losers. They’ve convicted some Nazis, some Serbs, and a few African war lords here and there. But it’s silly to presume they have authority over any nation…

> The concept of an international criminal court itself is an affront to national sovereignty, and isn’t very widely supported.

It is supported (i.e. signed and ratified) by all industrialized countries except the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_parties_to_the_Rome_Sta...

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#84

Post by mdp2021 »

hyperman1 wrote: post #60
tgv wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Key figures in US military and US leadership need to be held accountable. Isn't that a bit of a one-sided, vindictive point of view? I don't know who are still being detained in Guantánamo, but if there are terrorists among them, shouldn't these key figures then also be rewarded? I don't have the answer neither, but IMO the way the responsible people should be treated depends on their intentions, willingness to acc…

No. That's what due process is for. If you can't reasonably prove someone is a criminal, they don't belong in jail. Compare: Throw the whole population of your country in prison. Clearly, you've also imprisoned every terrorist of your country. Should you be rewarded for that? The Guantanamo situation is comparable: The US picked random people from the street based on gossip at best, or because they looked funny at a…

> Compare

High ranking officers (I am thinking of Sir David Omand) reported a switch in the past two decades in the practiced decision making parameters, which accept more false positives to avoid false negatives in alarms.

As if one calibrated a spam filter to discard messages from the Embassy and stationery supplier to be sure as little Viagra and inheriting princes come through. "More security, too bad for the few innocents."

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#85

Post by tgv »

hyperman1 wrote: post #60
tgv wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Key figures in US military and US leadership need to be held accountable. Isn't that a bit of a one-sided, vindictive point of view? I don't know who are still being detained in Guantánamo, but if there are terrorists among them, shouldn't these key figures then also be rewarded? I don't have the answer neither, but IMO the way the responsible people should be treated depends on their intentions, willingness to acc…

No. That's what due process is for. If you can't reasonably prove someone is a criminal, they don't belong in jail. Compare: Throw the whole population of your country in prison. Clearly, you've also imprisoned every terrorist of your country. Should you be rewarded for that? The Guantanamo situation is comparable: The US picked random people from the street based on gossip at best, or because they looked funny at a…

> Compare: Throw the whole population of your country in prison.

That's not a comparison to the situation in Guantanamo. 780 people were detained there, out of a potential 400 million (depending on where you draw the borders).

> Nobody should be rewarded for that.

One strike, you're out? Is that the rule you judge by?

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#86

Post by sofixa »

Chris2048 wrote: post #41
sofixa wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clearly the US is exempt from the war crimes laws, and that needs to change. But it would require leaders of other major powers/countries to push for this I don't see this happening any time soon, without a popular movement that drastically alters the American political landscape. Whichever party a president and legislators are from, they have war criminals among their ranks, so they couldn't accept their friends,…

> Heck, Trump pardoned a notorious war criminal Eddie Gallagher? I've yet to see conclusive evidence of that either way.

The fact he was actually convicted of war crimes, one of very few people in the US in that "club", isn't enough?

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#87

Post by zozbot234 »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #68
blunte wrote: post #2

Key figures in US military and US leadership need to be held accountable. Same as with CEOs, if you only punish the organization and not specifically the leaders, there is no disincentive to doing it again. Clearly the US is exempt from the war crimes laws, and that needs to change. But it would require leaders of other major powers/countries to push for this. But… this will never happen because almost no leader want…

The concept of an international criminal court itself is an affront to national sovereignty, and isn’t very widely supported. Among those who go along with it, they tend to stop once it creates an issue for them. The ICC primarily prosecutes the war crimes of war losers. They’ve convicted some Nazis, some Serbs, and a few African war lords here and there. But it’s silly to presume they have authority over any nation…

> But it’s silly to presume they have authority over any nation that exists with even a modicum of national security.

That's because most nations do have an established practice of putting their own war criminals on trial. It's good for building trust, which is quite beneficial in the longer run. The U.S. have slipped somewhat, but then they make up for that by literally paying for much of the civilized world's security, so they're still quite good on net.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#88

Post by baybal2 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #79
bayesian_horse wrote: post #76

You also shouldn't forget to hold the other powers to account that made it impossible to have peace in Afghanistan. Russia put out bounties on US soldiers, Iran armed the Taliban, Pakistan sheltered them and I'm sure China had their fingers in there just as well. The Taliban have never been the legitimate, much less the benevolent government of the Afghan people. If you've seen "The Handmaid's Tale" you have a genera…

Has there been any legitimate, benevolent government there in living memory? Perhaps they're simply better off with a king, much like the frogs in Aesop's tale.

No, there weren't. The one king which ran off to Italy was somewhat moderately legitimate, and moderately popular, but not enough to survive having his key people assassinated, nor to gain meaningful foreign assistance (USA denied his plea to save his ass from communists.)

It were Britishers who started this mess 140 years ago, and they must be the ones to fix this.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#89

Post by raxxorrax »

platz wrote: post #75

> He had just been conducting research in Afghanistan, and was expecting to begin college at the end of the year. Instead, he was accused of being an al-Qaida leader, kidnapped by Afghan warlords and handed over to the CIA this is the only information information in the whole arricle about why he was sent there, and it is pretty sparse information. If i were to put on my critical thinking media hat, this gives the im…

I think there indeed needs to be more story to detain him but it isn't up to him to provide a defense. It is well known that Gitmo contains people without any legal instrument. Of course a state should be held accountable for imprisioning people without accusations. Although that seems to be a pattern of the United States if you look what the attorney general in Missouri does with innocents.

There probably are bad people among those imprisoned and there just isn't enough evidence to convict them. The damage they can cause isn't on the level to committing treason towards your own alleged values.

The US also has spawned a lot of defense contractors the last 20 years that now will look inward to find business opportunities if no other external threat can be summoned. That will probably not be pretty.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#90

Post by stephen_g »

platz wrote: post #75

> He had just been conducting research in Afghanistan, and was expecting to begin college at the end of the year. Instead, he was accused of being an al-Qaida leader, kidnapped by Afghan warlords and handed over to the CIA this is the only information information in the whole arricle about why he was sent there, and it is pretty sparse information. If i were to put on my critical thinking media hat, this gives the im…

It mentions that 86% of prisoners there were handed over by locals as being “suspicious” when offered very large bounties by the US Government (apparently up to millions of dollars).

The article also links to this report of an ex-Bush era official saying most detainees were innocent [1] and the ALCU has some more info and numbers [2].

1. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/most-guantanamo-detainees-are-... 2. https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/detention/guan...

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