Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#41

Post by Kylekramer » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:35 PM UTC

jasongullickson wrote: post #26

What are your thoughts on this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facetime#Standards It would appear that FaceTime is built on top of open standards, is Steve more explicit than that in the original presentation (for example, does he say that access to Apple's FaceTime servers will be available openly, etc.)?

If you watch the actual presentation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1edQuxclUs&feature=playe...), Steve makes a clear distinction between being built on open standards and what they plan to do. What he means by going to standards bodies and making Facetime an open industry standard isn't really clear, but it is clear they didn't do that.

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#42

Post by jasonlotito » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:36 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #32

jasonlotito wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between saying "FaceTime is awesome!" and "We’re going to the standards bodies, starting tomorrow, and we’re going to make FaceTime an open industry standard."

[deleted]

> What is the difference?

Do you honestly not know the difference, or are you just trying to make a point? Because, and I feel justified in saying this, any reasonable person would look at what he said, and what has happened, and realize that he hasn't done what he promised.

That it was part of the marketing for the product as well doesn't help matters. Part of the reason I got the iPhone and got excited about FaceTime was precisely because it was supposed to be open. That it's not would have played a big part in purchasing decisions.

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#43

Post by marioestrada » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:37 PM UTC

Here's the only information we have publicly about what happened with the FaceTime open standard: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/05/11/facetime-standar...

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#44

Post by jgh » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:38 PM UTC

Oh gosh, I'm glad all these good people on HN have lined up to defend Steve Jobs, I don't know what I would do if I found out that he, at any point in time, lied to me. I would just... I would probably faint. Just thinking about that possibility has made me all lightheaded. I need a fan. I need to sit down. Steve Jobs will not lie to me! He is a good man! He makes the devices I crave! Electrolytes!

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#45

Post by skue » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:46 PM UTC

ryanisinallofus wrote: post #14

My wife: "Will you take the trash out?" Me: "Yeah, for sure. I'll take it out tonight." Tonight rolls by and the next day she tells me "You didn't take out the trash. You lied." Did I lie? Or did I have honest intentions of taking out the trash with circumstances getting in the way? Maybe I just forgot? I don't presume to know Jobs' intentions but without a history of lying during presentations I'm going to assume hi…

Your analogy isn't quite accurate.

Suppose your wife is less prone to accusations (admittedly you know her better than I). Instead of calling you a liar straight off, she simply reminds you, "You didn't take the trash out."

You ignore her.

She then asks, "Are you still planning to take the trash out?"

You ignore her.

She starts getting irritated. "Look, you said you were going to take the trash out. Obviously, you lied. And I'm really upset you won't talk to me about it."

You could try to say that you just hadn't gotten around to it yet, or that you had better things to do than explain this to your wife.

But you're still probably spending the night on the couch.

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#46

Post by davidbitter » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:46 PM UTC

ryanisinallofus wrote: post #14

My wife: "Will you take the trash out?" Me: "Yeah, for sure. I'll take it out tonight." Tonight rolls by and the next day she tells me "You didn't take out the trash. You lied." Did I lie? Or did I have honest intentions of taking out the trash with circumstances getting in the way? Maybe I just forgot? I don't presume to know Jobs' intentions but without a history of lying during presentations I'm going to assume hi…

If I stand up in front of millions of people and tell them I'm going to take the trash out tonight, and then I don't take the trash out tonight... I'm not trustworthy. It's not lying. I don't know if he used the word "promise" so maybe he broke a promise or maybe he didn't. The bottom line is that he can't be trusted.

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#47

Post by buster » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:46 PM UTC

ethank wrote: post #21

buster wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, on a more serious note: Why isn't there a website for all those massive marketing lies about every company throws at the customers, it's sickening.

Sickening? ITS MARKETING. The promise that something will make your life better is rarely true, but we deceive ourselves into thinking so because it helps fulfill the prophecy being told.

the point is: There is good marketing and good advertisements and then there are plain lies and false promises.

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#48

Post by samlevine » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:47 PM UTC

jm4 wrote: post #25

I'm genuinely curious why it even matters whether it's open or not. I get that he said it would be open and now it's not. But beyond that why does it even matter? I can use Tango, Qik, Skype, etc. I think there's an iOS app out there that does Google Talk video. They are even easier because I don't have to explain to my parents how to connect the phone to wifi. Maybe with the proliferation of all these other video ch…

Defaults are very powerful. You won't get a button in the middle of a call that takes you directly into Google Talk on an iPhone.

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#49

Post by Spines11 » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:52 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #28

I might care more if I'd ever actually observed someone using FaceTime. I have 3 MacBooks, an iPad, an iPhone 4, my coworkers and girlfriend and friends have FaceTime compatible devices too, but I've never seen anyone use it. Maybe they don't open it because it is a dead product.

My family uses it a lot, but only between family, and mostly at home. It's a more personal form of communication, so I feel like it's more likely to be used in a private space.

Re: Steve Jobs Sometimes Lies to You

#50

Post by danramteke » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 8:55 PM UTC

buster wrote: post #7

buster wrote: post #4

one cent for every lie, and i'd be millionaire by now.. (this had to be said and will be worth the massive downvotes)

Also, on a more serious note: Why isn't there a website for all those massive marketing lies about every company throws at the customers, it's sickening.

See also the work done by the Chasers with their "Ad Road Test" segments.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ad+road+test+cha...