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Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

cbc.ca

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Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#71

Post by ghaff »

totony wrote: post #58
ghaff wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems perfectly reasonable. I would be against vaccinating people by force. I'm not against telling them they can't fly, eat at a restaurant, or attend a concert if they choose to not be vaccinated. ADDED: Governmental mandates vs. rules established by private organizations is a reasonable debate. I probably prefer the latter in most cases. For example, I'm attending an event in about a month and they're requiring va…

Replace vaccinated by any race. Does that sound good? I say that in a non-facetious way to expose bias. We don't say "you have the right to X, BUT if you use that right you don't have the right to do what everyone else does." That's not a right. "You have a right to free expression, but if you express dissent you are barred from using the Internet (it's too dangerous!)".

You choose whether to be vaccinated. You don't choose race and other protected classes. You have a constitutional right to free speech with some limitations explored by the Supreme Court over the years. The same Supreme Court (different individuals obviously) who established that Massachusetts could fine individuals who refused to take the smallpox vaccine.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#72

Post by khuey »

ghaff wrote: post #65
koolba wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only 10% of Canadians are opposed to vaccines, so it won't be an unpopular choice. What does “opposed to vaccines” even mean? Vaccines for anybody? Vaccines for themselves? Mandatory vaccines? I sincerely doubt 10% of even Canada is in favor of mandating everyone be vaccinated to live what was once a normal life. EDIT: I meant that last sentence in reverse, ie doubt that only 10% is against mandatory vaccinations.…

Even in the US, I think you'd find there was significantly greater than 10% support for vaccine mandates for certain activities, jobs, etc.

Politico ran a poll that found that 56% of Americans would support a blanket vaccine mandate with essentially no exceptions (https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc..., question POL11_5) so yeah it's way higher than 10%.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#73

Post by bonzini »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #34
MichaelZuo wrote: post #4

It’s surprising since an 81% vaccination rate is already near the top of forecasts. Will a 90% or 95% rate make that much of a difference to justify forcing people to do so?

Yes, it should make a difference. We get measles outbreaks in the US in areas with much higher compliance rates than 81%. And that's without counting all the people who are not eligible yet.

Measles is insanely transmissible though, twice as much as Delta and four-five times as much as the original Wuhan wild type.

On the other hand it doesn't mutate much and the vaccine has a greater efficiency.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#74

Post by totony »

SECProto wrote: post #68
totony wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have the right to drive a car (and it's pretty well know e.g. you require a license) in this case. Here people say you have the right to choose what goes in your body and to be treated as a normal person (not a "normal person license" or a "body choice license")

These persons still have the right to choose what goes in their body, be it alcohol or vaccine. The choice just has certain consequences on available transportation methods.

Why does exercising your right have consequences? If we go that way, why not just jail them? ("You have a right to choose, but if you do you're going to a quarantine facility")

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#75

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

bonzini wrote: post #73
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it should make a difference. We get measles outbreaks in the US in areas with much higher compliance rates than 81%. And that's without counting all the people who are not eligible yet.

Measles is insanely transmissible though, twice as much as Delta and four-five times as much as the original Wuhan wild type. On the other hand it doesn't mutate much and the vaccine has a greater efficiency.

Yes, this just proves my point. We are able to mostly stop a more transmissible disease with sufficiently high vaccine compliance. If we aren't stopping covid, that is a sign that compliance is not high enough.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#76

Post by ghaff »

khuey wrote: post #72
ghaff wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the US, I think you'd find there was significantly greater than 10% support for vaccine mandates for certain activities, jobs, etc.

Politico ran a poll that found that 56% of Americans would support a blanket vaccine mandate with essentially no exceptions ( https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc... , question POL11_5) so yeah it's way higher than 10%.

I hadn't seen that particular poll but there's apparently a very widespread mood among vaccinated people that any pressure on unvaccinated is fair game to:

- Better protect vaccinated people given vaccines aren't 100%

- Get things opened back up faster

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#77

Post by vnjfvfg »

ghaff wrote: post #65
koolba wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only 10% of Canadians are opposed to vaccines, so it won't be an unpopular choice. What does “opposed to vaccines” even mean? Vaccines for anybody? Vaccines for themselves? Mandatory vaccines? I sincerely doubt 10% of even Canada is in favor of mandating everyone be vaccinated to live what was once a normal life. EDIT: I meant that last sentence in reverse, ie doubt that only 10% is against mandatory vaccinations.…

Even in the US, I think you'd find there was significantly greater than 10% support for vaccine mandates for certain activities, jobs, etc.

GP said "everyone" - meaning police showing up at people's doorsteps, pinning them down, and giving them shots.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#78

Post by ckdarby »

wyck wrote: post #70
mabbo wrote: post #9

It's likely because of the election. Trudeau is calling for an election in the next few weeks. By announcing this now, he dares the opposition to say it's the wrong move, so that he can say he's protecting Canadians and the conservatives won't. Keep me in charge to stay safe. Only 10% of Canadians are opposed to vaccines, so it won't be an unpopular choice. And if the opposition says it's the right move, he can say "…

40% of the Canadian population is unvaccinated, approximately 15 million people.

71.744% of the Canadian population has received at least one dose

82.404% of Canadians 12+ have received at least one dose

Source: https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#79

Post by bonzini »

fighterpilot wrote: post #48
nradov wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't limit large gathering forever. Since the virus can never be eradicated and will always be around the most likely scenario is that almost all of us will eventually get infected regardless of what infection control steps we take. Fortunately the vaccines are very effective at preventing bad outcomes.

Is getting COVID after having been jabbed twice within the last 6-months worse than the regular flu in terms of mortality risk or ICU risk?

Should be either comparable or much better for most age ranges. Most important, it becomes much harder to overload the healthcare system. If the vaccine prevents you from getting into ICU most of the time, it's "as if" you multiplied the number of ICU beds by 10-20.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#80

Post by gdulli »

wyck wrote: post #70
mabbo wrote: post #9

It's likely because of the election. Trudeau is calling for an election in the next few weeks. By announcing this now, he dares the opposition to say it's the wrong move, so that he can say he's protecting Canadians and the conservatives won't. Keep me in charge to stay safe. Only 10% of Canadians are opposed to vaccines, so it won't be an unpopular choice. And if the opposition says it's the right move, he can say "…

40% of the Canadian population is unvaccinated, approximately 15 million people.

82% of the age-eligible population is either fully vaccinated or has started the process with the first shot.
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