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FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

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Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#261

Post by techrat »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #231
techrat wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly everything you've said was bullshit. Google has never restricted sideloading. Android 12 even enables sideloading further by allowing third party app stores to auto update. AOSP exists. Third party roms exist. All of the devices sold by Google can be unlocked to install third party roms. LineageOS doesn't exist because 'a complete and unassailable monopoly' allows them to.

Google admits it tries to prevent sideloading as much as possible in their own court filings with Epic. Their own managers called the experience "abysmal", and they considered buying Epic to prevent them from doing it. Also they sent Project Zero out to portray Epic as "insecure" in a bunch of hit pieces across the media. AOSP is not meaningfully existing on any device sold today. The fact you can hack your device do…

> Google admits it tries to prevent sideloading as much as possible in their own court filings with Epic.

[citation needed]

I know what you're referring to and I know you're being wholly disingenuous.

> AOSP is not meaningfully existing on any device sold today.

AOSP is technically sold on every device since that's what every single Android version *AND* skin is based on.

If you want to do something that isn't supported by the oem, then do it yourself. Nothing stops you from being able to do so which is the entire damn point.

> The fact you can hack your device doesn't change the monopoly Google operates that 99.9% of Android devices are trapped in.

An unlockable bootloader isn't a hack. Try again.

For an IT Consultant, you're remarkably ignorant when it comes to the reality of Android.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#262

Post by guerrilla »

alexanderdmitri wrote: post #253
numpad0 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s depressing that wokest of woke users(including myself) still use Google to find a link or at most DDG which is just a wrapper to Google Search.

DDG isn't a wrapper around google. Also, I want to tell you it gets better, I had problems getting sleep too for nearly a decade and it started really catching up with me as I entered my thirties (appetite, energy and cognitive issues for example). Turning screens off, limiting stimulants, not partying as much and keeping a regular wake up time _really_ helped me. Best of luck to you.

You took that too literally [1]

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#263

Post by denton-scratch »

scrollaway wrote: post #195
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually , OSM was launched before Google Maps, in August 2004, while Google Maps were launched only in February 2005, six months later.

I enjoyed your pedantry :) that’s fair enough, but I maintain that without Maps it would not exist in its current state as a reliable alternative to it. Just like I maintain that without Google Search we would not have Bing.

Hardly pedantry - scrollaway's observation is that OSM cannot have been a response to Maps, because OSM launched before Maps.

GP said: "without Google Maps it would not exist." It's not pedantry to note that's the opposite of the truth.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#264

Post by arunkumar9t2 »

techrat wrote: post #261
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google admits it tries to prevent sideloading as much as possible in their own court filings with Epic. Their own managers called the experience "abysmal", and they considered buying Epic to prevent them from doing it. Also they sent Project Zero out to portray Epic as "insecure" in a bunch of hit pieces across the media. AOSP is not meaningfully existing on any device sold today. The fact you can hack your device do…

> Google admits it tries to prevent sideloading as much as possible in their own court filings with Epic. [citation needed] I know what you're referring to and I know you're being wholly disingenuous. > AOSP is not meaningfully existing on any device sold today. AOSP is technically sold on every device since that's what every single Android version *AND* skin is based on. If you want to do something that isn't suppor…

> [citation needed]

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/6/22612921/google-epic-antit...

> An unlockable bootloader isn't a hack. Try again.

Several apps rely on successful SafetyNet verification to start functioning. A unlocked bootloader will trip this and apps stop functioning. Current solutions to overcome this is a cat and mouse game.

https://www.xda-developers.com/bypass-safetynet-hardware-att...

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#265

Post by [deleted] »

Too wrote: post #252
nousermane wrote: post #111

Another example of arbitrary playstore rules killing a FOSS app - playstore version of termux is stuck on a 2-year-old release (0.101) and can't run on Android 10 at all. If you install from F-Droid - latest version is available (0.117) and works on Android 10, too. https://github.com/termux/termux-app/issues/1072 https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux_Google_Play

I would not call that arbitrary play store rules. Rather the general app sandbox has had tightened security, which affects api compatibility, thus play rejects it to make sure it’s future proofed by author. In the meantime, during phase-out, sideloading works so old versions of app suddenly don’t stop working, but eventually that call will stop working. Whether apps should be allowed to download and execute code out…

[deleted]

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#266

Post by techrat »

arunkumar9t2 wrote: post #264
techrat wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google admits it tries to prevent sideloading as much as possible in their own court filings with Epic. [citation needed] I know what you're referring to and I know you're being wholly disingenuous. > AOSP is not meaningfully existing on any device sold today. AOSP is technically sold on every device since that's what every single Android version *AND* skin is based on. If you want to do something that isn't suppor…

> [citation needed] https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/6/22612921/google-epic-antit... > An unlockable bootloader isn't a hack. Try again. Several apps rely on successful SafetyNet verification to start functioning. A unlocked bootloader will trip this and apps stop functioning. Current solutions to overcome this is a cat and mouse game. https://www.xda-developers.com/bypass-safetynet-hardware-att...

What was said:

> Google admits it tries to prevent sideloading as much as possible in their own court filings with Epic.

Your citation?

Still shows that sideloading is possible.

Derp.

That's not preventing sideloading. Some one time steps remind the user that there are risks to sideloading something that can't be trusted.

Like I said to the other guy, I knew what he was referring to and it was wholly disingenuous to make the claim that he did.

Sideloading. Is. Not. Prevented.

It is cautioned against.

Big difference.

The article claims 15+ steps, which is absolute bullshit.

-- 1) Open Chrome.

-- 2) Find and Download APK. https://i.imgur.com/ZFZb1uE.png

-- 3) Accept warning and Open APK.

-- 4) Go to settings. (This only has to be done once) https://i.imgur.com/R8FzTzP.png

-- 5) Toggle Install Unknown Apps for Chrome. (This only has to be done once) https://i.imgur.com/K0ADO2q.png

-- 6) Click back (This only has to be done once)

-- 7) Click install. https://i.imgur.com/xVSndex.png

-- Done. https://i.imgur.com/fyasTK9.png

On no. That was really hard.

After the first time it takes a whole whopping, astounding, IMPOSSIBLE.... 4 steps. Open browser, download APK, open APK, click Install.

IMPOSSIBLE, I TELL YOU!

Don't even need to enable Developer Options in Android. No iOS developer cert needed. No host computer or one week expiration like Apple does it.

And guess what? Sideloading has always been possible on Android. Always.

This looks like something Google is doing to make it too difficult to sideload? ("Google tries to prevent sideloading as much as possible" I believe was said) Well, shit, whoever finds this difficult should not be sideloading apps in the first place.

> Several apps rely on successful SafetyNet verification to start functioning. A unlocked bootloader will trip this and apps stop functioning. Current solutions to overcome this is a cat and mouse game.

However, this doesn't change the fact that unlocking the bootloader on a device where a bootloader can be unlocked... is NOT A HACK.

Safetynet as a consequence of unlocking the bootloader is a known trade off. Security vs the ability to modify the system files. Seems completely fair to me.

The way you guys go about this, how you get so much wrong in the process that the disingenuous replies barely mask that your contempt lies with Google regardless of how anything is actually done.

You created an account to jump into a thread where you merely propagated the previous user's fallacies? Really?

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#267

Post by depressedpanda »

AJRF wrote: post #125

I’m an iOS developer but I would never ever start an iOS or Android app as a side project. Don’t support this madness anymore. PWAs aren't as good but they are good enough for most use cases. Just refuse to make apps for these platforms anymore. If every dev does it there will be overwhelming pressure for Apple and Google to improve PWA support. Just keep pushing back against this.

In what way(s) aren't PWAs as good, would you say?

Personally, I think >90% of all apps I've used could be implemented as a PWA, as nothing they do really require native performance.

The main issues I see are

1. The DX needs some improvement

2. Apple are dragging their feet implementing new web tech on Safari, and are therefore holding everyone hostage since you cannot install any other browser on iOS.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#268

Post by depressedpanda »

suprfsat wrote: post #52
rbx wrote: post #9

Would Google also be able to negatively influence such an app if the app was a PWA? Publishing PWA on Play Store might still lead to the same outcome, but what if it is just an independent PWA and is "installed" through the phone's browser? Of course you would loose some discoverability though, but are there other disadvantages? (provided the app is even feasible as a PWA)

They could make Chrome experience deliberately bad, if you believe they're not doing that currently.

I don't really want to defend Google here, but the best PWA experience for both Android and desktop is actually with Chrome.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#269

Post by scrollaway »

denton-scratch wrote: post #263
scrollaway wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoyed your pedantry :) that’s fair enough, but I maintain that without Maps it would not exist in its current state as a reliable alternative to it. Just like I maintain that without Google Search we would not have Bing.

Hardly pedantry - scrollaway's observation is that OSM cannot have been a response to Maps, because OSM launched before Maps. GP said: "without Google Maps it would not exist." It's not pedantry to note that's the opposite of the truth.

It would not exist "as you know it today", which is a valid version of "it would not exist".

Like i said, i appreciated the comment, it was pedant for a very valid reason. Yours, less so.

Re: FOSS app removed from the Play Store for linking to the project's website

#270

Post by grishka »

petschge wrote: post #226
grishka wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming to a torrent tracker near you for free an hour after release.

This is not to stop the people who can download from a torrent (without getting sued into oblivion for copyright violations) and know how to install an OS. It's to stop the other 99%. In some sense having an option for that 1% is a good idea, because it reduced their interest to break the "protections" in the Home edition that the majority uses.

Okay, let's see. All desktop web browsers come with developer tools, but most people have no idea. Many Android phones have unlockable bootloaders, and even fewer people know about this one. It's this difference between "can be done if you need and know how" and "burned into silicon so you're out of luck" that's very important. The latter is extremely dangerous as it completely strips the user of agency.
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