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AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

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Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#21

Post by korethr »

skuhn wrote: post #16
korethr wrote: post #2

low whistle I imagine they paid a pretty penny for those /12s. A thought comes to me: If IPv6 adoption continues to drag along, and AWS/Azure/GCP continue to expand their IP blocks like this, how quickly are we in danger of the cloud providers effectively being the Internet?

Public auctions (which they didn't use) are currently in the $45-50 per IP ballpark. At that price it's $247.5 million worth of IPs. At auction the larger networks tend to go for less money per IP since there is a smaller market of people who want and can buy them (you have to be approved by ARIN/RIPE/etc. for the allocation size), which drives the price down.

What's the cutoff for larger networks where the price starts to go down? Would say, a /16 count? Or does that effect kick in as low as, say, a /20?

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#22

Post by skuhn »

lashloch wrote: post #8
hamburgerwah wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having just realized my internet provider, cox, does not actually support ipv6 for the 2 million plus subscribers in my state I think it is safe to say that ipv6 is dead and will never take the place of ipv4 in our lifetimes. Don't get me wrong. They say they support it, they have lots of PR that says the support it but in fact as a subscriber they do not.

in our lifetimes. you don't think ipv6 will overtake ipv4 in the next 50-odd years? think about the year 1971 and what was thought possible then

Overtake: yes.

The ability to launch a public-facing, commercial service and pretend like IPv4 never existed and you don't have to worry about it at all? Probably not within our lifetimes.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#23

Post by Ericson2314 »

korethr wrote: post #2

low whistle I imagine they paid a pretty penny for those /12s. A thought comes to me: If IPv6 adoption continues to drag along, and AWS/Azure/GCP continue to expand their IP blocks like this, how quickly are we in danger of the cloud providers effectively being the Internet?

Yeah I would like the FTC go after new IPv4 deployments / mandate dual stack on anti-trust grounds.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#24

Post by korethr »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #23
korethr wrote: post #2

low whistle I imagine they paid a pretty penny for those /12s. A thought comes to me: If IPv6 adoption continues to drag along, and AWS/Azure/GCP continue to expand their IP blocks like this, how quickly are we in danger of the cloud providers effectively being the Internet?

Yeah I would like the FTC go after new IPv4 deployments / mandate dual stack on anti-trust grounds.

That's an interesting idea. I don't know if the FTC has the authority to do so under the current powers given to it by Congress, and I don't know if I'd like the precedent of them trying without Congress so delegating that power. I'd be totally willing to discuss Congress delegating them said authority.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#25

Post by skuhn »

jagger27 wrote: post #9

Who the heck has a couple /12s and a /13 just lying around unused? And there are even some earlier pickups of two /10s: 252.0.0.0/10 and 44.192.0.0/10. Wow.

Amazon bought 3.0.0.0/8 from GE in 2018 [1].

So part of this is putting into service networks that they previously acquired, probably to keep up with growth. Buying in 2018 would have been a MUCH lower price than today -- and it can pretty much only go up!

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18407173

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#27

Post by birdman3131 »

hamburgerwah wrote: post #4
korethr wrote: post #2

low whistle I imagine they paid a pretty penny for those /12s. A thought comes to me: If IPv6 adoption continues to drag along, and AWS/Azure/GCP continue to expand their IP blocks like this, how quickly are we in danger of the cloud providers effectively being the Internet?

Having just realized my internet provider, cox, does not actually support ipv6 for the 2 million plus subscribers in my state I think it is safe to say that ipv6 is dead and will never take the place of ipv4 in our lifetimes. Don't get me wrong. They say they support it, they have lots of PR that says the support it but in fact as a subscriber they do not.

Cox has had ipv6 for quite a while. Hell for a while they kept shutting down my ipv4 leaving me only with ipv6. That was fun to get through tech supports head. Took three times of that happening for a day or two before I finally got to a level 2/3 tech that at least understood what I was talking about.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#28

Post by lmm »

selectodude wrote: post #20
jagger27 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew about Apple and AT&T. DoD is really hoarding them, wow.

Honestly prudential is the one that stuns me. They’re an insurance company! Why do they need all those?!

They probably got a /8 early and gave each regional office their own /16, so they'd have to unpick all the addresses they're currently using before they could sell off any.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#29

Post by skuhn »

korethr wrote: post #21
skuhn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public auctions (which they didn't use) are currently in the $45-50 per IP ballpark. At that price it's $247.5 million worth of IPs. At auction the larger networks tend to go for less money per IP since there is a smaller market of people who want and can buy them (you have to be approved by ARIN/RIPE/etc. for the allocation size), which drives the price down.

What's the cutoff for larger networks where the price starts to go down? Would say, a /16 count? Or does that effect kick in as low as, say, a /20?

I think that it starts to have downward pressure at /22 to /20. You can see Hilco's historicals at [1]. Not all purchases are done in public though.

It seems to me like an arbitrage opportunity, since /24 and /23 networks have many more potential buyers. But you have to be approved with a regional registry for the amount of space in order to buy it.

Observing things from the buy side, I suspect that IP space is being brought to auction in a slow but steady trickle so as to maintain upward momentum on prices. The price has approximately doubled in the last year.

[1] https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#30

Post by techsupporter »

Meanwhile, Hetzner just added a staggering $19/address setup fee and a soon doubling of prices for IPv4 addresses from them ostensibly due to the rising costs of getting addresses, yet still has virtually no support for IPv6 on their offerings outside of a /64 per dedicated server.

https://docs.hetzner.com/general/others/ipv4-pricing/

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