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After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

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Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#171

My problem with all of this is not some abstract slippery slope of "what happens if China starts insisting that Tank Man be added to the hash list" or whatever. It's the practical scenarios where people in the United States have previously been indicted and their lives ruined over "child pornography" or "statutory rape" that stretches the definition to the breaking point. Young men just barely 18 years old have gone…

This is a highly informative comment. Thanks!

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#172

My problem with all of this is not some abstract slippery slope of "what happens if China starts insisting that Tank Man be added to the hash list" or whatever. It's the practical scenarios where people in the United States have previously been indicted and their lives ruined over "child pornography" or "statutory rape" that stretches the definition to the breaking point. Young men just barely 18 years old have gone…

This is not a risk unique to Apple’s program to scan for known CSAM. Every cloud provider is susceptible.

Furthermore, I am fairly sure NCMEC’s due diligence process involves confirming the depicted individual was abused.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#173
I think the most reasonable solution to this problem is to not purchase Apple products for a few years given how they have responded to criticism and promoted the characterization of privacy advocates as "screeching voices". I was thinking of upgrading my iPhone given it's getting pretty old now but I can't really see myself doing that now.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#174
To everyone looking for alternatives, there are quite a few but strong alternatives. They are on a spectrum of complexity/privacy/convenience.

Android probably is not much different. But and this a big one, android devices are not tied to the host google OS and are waaaay way more open than Apple. This is because of Apple's ir tight grip on their hardware ecosystem and lobbying against right to repair. Also, the abundance of android phone makers means you get features at a variety of price points.

The OS options are LineageOS (my daily driver), CalyxOS worth more google support, microG lineage.

More different OS are Ubuntu touch (very active), postmarket OS with multiple frontends just like on Linux desktop, Manjaro Mobile, etc.

And hardware wise, there is Pine phone and Purism. But the more people paying for these, the more there is money for the competition.

Apple id already sitting on a staggering $200billion dollars. $200 billion.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#175
post #9

With this much bad PR (and Apple hates bad PR), why is Apple pretty much holding its position?

The thing that strikes me as most suspicious is their insistence on keeping the client-side scanning feature while wrapping it in all sorts of supposed restrictions so it's essentially server-side scanning, just implemented on the client device for some reason. If the problem is "We need to scan stuff on iCloud for CSAM" then "Let's build a client-side scanning agent and distribute it to hundreds of millions of devic…

I assume their goal is to turn on E2E for what gets stored on their servers.

Right now, they have to hand over anyone’s photo library if they are ordered to do so.

If they turn on E2E that will no longer be possible, and this will be strictly better and harder to abuse.

That doesn’t mean this mechanism isn’t offensive. It just is better from a privacy point of view for them to do this and enable E2E.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#176
post #90
post #28

And... Apple misses the point of the criticism completely. This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist. I don't buy into theories that Apple is being pressured or coerced on a…

I just have to wonder who green-lit this idea to begin with. Every single other company is riding a post-covid tidal wave of sales. as WFH becomes a reality for so many workers, apple products are positioned to really take center stage for a massive segment of consumers... and then this. Apple intentionally injects uncertainty and controversy? what were they thinking?? sure its just phones right now but im sure mac u…

>>I just have to wonder who green-lit this idea to begin with.

I suspect, with no inside knowledge, that there's someone high up in Apple who feels very, very passionately about child abuse/these sorts of images due to some personal connection, and they are championing the idea internally. And tbh not the worst bugbear to have, but obviously this isn't the way to address it.

As for why the big players aren't jumping on this - it's a tricky line to walk, you don't ever want to be seen as pro child abuse.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#177
post #28

And... Apple misses the point of the criticism completely. This problem is the capability, not what it's used for. Any such capability will be abused by new use cases be it terrorism, drug trafficking, human trafficking or whatever. Plus there will inevitably be unauthorized access. The only way to prevent all this is for the system not to exist. I don't buy into theories that Apple is being pressured or coerced on a…

> The big question for me is how and why Tim Cook and Apple's board signed off on a plan "Do us a favor or the AG launches an investigation into your business practices."

You mean those investigations into app store practices. ;)

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#178
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The folks who choose iPhone in part because of a perception of relative privacy and respect for the user (like myself) will think twice. My two concerns are that Android as an ecosystem is almost certainly still worse, and that the vast majority of users will not care. I’m tempted to jailbreak my devices going forward, although I guess the folks at Apple would say that makes me a pedophile. Edit: seeking recommendati…

I'm switching to a Pixel 3 or 4 running CalyxOS, GrapheneOS, or LineageOS. I'm eager to have my choice of OS on my phone, build it myself, etc. https://calyxos.org/get/ https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

Thanks, that seems to be the right answer.

I just recently migrated everything to Apple + iCloud, but now it appears to be time to switch to synology+pixel/graphene+Firefox

Apparently obsidian.md can be end-to-end encrypted through their service, for anyone else planning to ditch iCloud.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#179
Suppose we trust what they're saying, what proportion of "children abuse" photos is supposed to be flagged in "multiple nations"?

How many children is this going to protect, to weigh against the loss of privacy across the whole userbase [in US] [for now]?

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#180

My problem with all of this is not some abstract slippery slope of "what happens if China starts insisting that Tank Man be added to the hash list" or whatever. It's the practical scenarios where people in the United States have previously been indicted and their lives ruined over "child pornography" or "statutory rape" that stretches the definition to the breaking point. Young men just barely 18 years old have gone…

This is not a risk unique to Apple’s program to scan for known CSAM. Every cloud provider is susceptible. Furthermore, I am fairly sure NCMEC’s due diligence process involves confirming the depicted individual was abused.

NCMEC and similar groups call all child pornography CSAM.[1] Including 17 year olds sexting each other. And several people said NCMEC's database includes legal images.[2][3] What made you fairly sure NCMEC's process was more rigorous?

[1] https://www.missingkids.org/theissues/csam

[2] https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/929-On...

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28069844

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