Live data from Hacker News

After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

mobile.reuters.com

121–130 of 255 posts

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#121
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There shouldn’t be a single line of code, or single binary blob, on my device that can compute these photo DNA hashes. Apple could always go ahead and add that functionality in an update, but then there would be a big backlash and the opportunity to not update or switch providers.

Wouldn't users have the ability to not update or switch providers if Apple expands the scope of its search beyond CSAM? I guess I don't see the huge difference between the surveillance code existing on the phone but not used for objectionable purposes versus the line of code sitting in a different branch in git and not deployed on actual phones (yet). I'm completely against this move by the way -- I'm not trying to d…

This is like renting a house and the owner saying "we installed a camera in your house, but we'll only look at the video, if someone screams 'help'"

Then someone says "what if they change it so it sends the video if someone says 'do you want some pot?'"

And your argument would be "wouldn't you just move if they did that?" - this argument is pointless, because it's not the "help" part that bothersome, it's the always recording camera in a black box, for which you never know what's recording and what's it sending to apple. Let's say hypothetically they do this, and modify the database to trigger on the "tank man" photo, and give that photo such weight, that it triggers manual review by the CCP observer (remember, apple data for chinese users is hosted in china) - you'll never know the image got flagged, you'll never even know that it was sent anywhere, but your social score will go down and you might "vanish" during the night. Imagine some new wikileaks happening... 15 journalists around the world get the data, NSA/CIA/FBI has hacked one of them and found some photos of USA doing something bad.... add those photos to the database, have apple scan all the phones, you find the other 14 journalists, and possible even the leaker who took the original photo. If this is expended to macbooks (which it probably will), even worse, because people keep more sensitive stuff on ther computers than their phones.

And all this for what? Child molesters and rapists (the worst of the pedos) create new photos and videos, that are in none of the databases, so you never catch them. Their direct sponsors (paying customers) get the photos first, and again, before they're in the database. So all you've caught is someone browsing 4chan.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't users have the ability to not update or switch providers if Apple expands the scope of its search beyond CSAM? I guess I don't see the huge difference between the surveillance code existing on the phone but not used for objectionable purposes versus the line of code sitting in a different branch in git and not deployed on actual phones (yet). I'm completely against this move by the way -- I'm not trying to d…

This is like renting a house and the owner saying "we installed a camera in your house, but we'll only look at the video, if someone screams 'help'" Then someone says "what if they change it so it sends the video if someone says 'do you want some pot?'" And your argument would be "wouldn't you just move if they did that?" - this argument is pointless, because it's not the "help" part that bothersome, it's the always…

> And all this for what? Child molesters and rapists (the worst of the pedos) create new photos and videos, that are in none of the databases, so you never catch them. Their direct sponsors (paying customers) get the photos first, and again, before they're in the database.

I hadn’t considered that. This would seem to create a market incentive to abuse more children and create a greater variety of new abusive content. Has that been considered at all?

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#123

This is by far the biggest misstep of Tim Cook’s tenure at Apple thus far. If they don’t kill this program soon, it’s going to overshadow the entire upcoming iPhone event, and will follow Apple around like a dark cloud for years. I can see the headlines now: “New iPhone launches amid massive new privacy concerns.” Anytime someone praises Apple for privacy, anywhere on the internet, there will be a tidal wave of peopl…

> It’s like taking decades and billions of dollars worth of hard won reputation for privacy and throwing it in the garbage at the worst possible moment.

How gullible Apple users are to think that their closed-source ecosystem was ever about privacy, but I still don't think they'll learn. It is a cult and will continue being a cult.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#124
post #98

This is by far the biggest misstep of Tim Cook’s tenure at Apple thus far. If they don’t kill this program soon, it’s going to overshadow the entire upcoming iPhone event, and will follow Apple around like a dark cloud for years. I can see the headlines now: “New iPhone launches amid massive new privacy concerns.” Anytime someone praises Apple for privacy, anywhere on the internet, there will be a tidal wave of peopl…

The folks who choose iPhone in part because of a perception of relative privacy and respect for the user (like myself) will think twice. My two concerns are that Android as an ecosystem is almost certainly still worse, and that the vast majority of users will not care. I’m tempted to jailbreak my devices going forward, although I guess the folks at Apple would say that makes me a pedophile. Edit: seeking recommendati…

I'm very nostalgic for Blackberry again. I feel like on a platform where the whole point was to prevent anyone who wasn't the corporate IT department from being able to access it, this local code execution would have been a massive non starter.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#125
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There shouldn’t be a single line of code, or single binary blob, on my device that can compute these photo DNA hashes. Apple could always go ahead and add that functionality in an update, but then there would be a big backlash and the opportunity to not update or switch providers.

> Apple could always go ahead and add that functionality in an update, but then there would be a big backlash and the opportunity to not update or switch providers. Isn't that exactly what is happening now?

It is exactly. And I have my opportunity to start migrating to Android before the big update.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#126
Let's talk about a nanny state called Finland for a moment

> the Finnish National Bureau of Investigation (NBI), had compiled a secret blacklist of websites that it deemed to contain child pornography and sent it to Finnish Internet service providers.

> Analyzing the address list, Nikki also noted that the first three Google search results for "gay porn" are censored. Electronic Frontier Finland (EFFI) have noticed that the blacklist includes non-pornographic websites also, including a Windows advice forum, a computer repair service and the Internet Initiative Japan server nn.iij4u.or.jp that, among others, hosts websites for a violin factory, a doll store and a hearing aid manufacturer.

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsiporno.info

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#127
post #98

This is by far the biggest misstep of Tim Cook’s tenure at Apple thus far. If they don’t kill this program soon, it’s going to overshadow the entire upcoming iPhone event, and will follow Apple around like a dark cloud for years. I can see the headlines now: “New iPhone launches amid massive new privacy concerns.” Anytime someone praises Apple for privacy, anywhere on the internet, there will be a tidal wave of peopl…

The folks who choose iPhone in part because of a perception of relative privacy and respect for the user (like myself) will think twice. My two concerns are that Android as an ecosystem is almost certainly still worse, and that the vast majority of users will not care. I’m tempted to jailbreak my devices going forward, although I guess the folks at Apple would say that makes me a pedophile. Edit: seeking recommendati…

I put LineageOS on an S5 a while back (with gApps, but there are non-Google alternatives) and it went pretty smoothly. Works with several more modern phones.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#128

This is by far the biggest misstep of Tim Cook’s tenure at Apple thus far. If they don’t kill this program soon, it’s going to overshadow the entire upcoming iPhone event, and will follow Apple around like a dark cloud for years. I can see the headlines now: “New iPhone launches amid massive new privacy concerns.” Anytime someone praises Apple for privacy, anywhere on the internet, there will be a tidal wave of peopl…

This I think is a bit of HN myopia.

I've talked around and nobody I know is even aware of this, when I brought it up, they didn't care about the issue.

It's not news in the commons, it's not on CNN, Fox or MSNBC right now as a headline.

It's one of those tertiary concerns that frustrates some groups, but most people are not aware and would only marginally maligned, and a good 2/3 of people really don't care. I suspect most people would have a difficult time with the 'slippery slope' issue and would accept the 'it's for the children' terms at face value.

It is what it is, but it's worth understanding how regular people think about these issues.

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occam's razor says they aren't playing 11th dimensional chess and that they just fucked up. It happens.

"Build this. Don't explain why" is not chess. It would be a perfectly logical order from the power structures Snowden exposed. eta: It makes way more sense to me than Apple actually thinking this was a good idea.

> It would be a perfectly logical order from the power structures Snowden exposed.

Snowden exposed that Apple was actively part[1] of the PRISM data collection and surveillance program targeting Americans.

Apple also voluntarily gives up customer's data when requested by the US government for about 120,000 individuals a year[2]. They also hand over the data for over 31,000 users/accounts in response to FISA and NSL requests[2] in a six month period.

> eta: It makes way more sense to me than Apple actually thinking this was a good idea.

Based on the company's own messaging, they simply seem proud of the project and find it ambitious[3]. They're also excited about the project's expansion and evolution[3].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/...

[2] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html

[3] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/

Re: After criticism, Apple to only seek abuse images flagged in multiple nations

#130

It was not that long ago that Apple wrote this letter https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ . > Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.

> For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.

How ironic of you, Apple

Post reply on HN