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How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

nature.com

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Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#41

Post by musha68k »

musha68k wrote: post #35
oxymoran wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People under the age of 1 is not even close to equaling “kids”. Come on.

Your point being what exactly? Apart from more severe outcomes for babies than what we thought there are children that increasingly have to be treated for pneumonia at hospitals. Also long covid is on the rise. This has been widely reported recently. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/long-covi... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/heal...

Also for latest information, lots of interesting questions in current TWiV Q&A surrounding this topic as well:

https://youtu.be/_MvRUtbUEqU

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#42

Post by drno123 »

walterbell wrote: post #25

Vaccines delivered to the arm deltoid muscle never promised mucosal immunity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7733922/ > The mucosal immune system is the largest component of the entire immune system, having evolved to provide protection at the main sites of infectious threat: the mucosae. As SARS-CoV-2 initially infects the upper respiratory tract, its first interactions with the immune system must occu…

Thank you for the clear explanation. Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for example, shopping malls and no need to wear a mask indoors.

Does this mean that Covid passports actually help spread Covid from vaccinated to non-vaccinated people who mix together without masks?

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#43

Post by ignoramous »

walterbell wrote: post #25

Vaccines delivered to the arm deltoid muscle never promised mucosal immunity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7733922/ > The mucosal immune system is the largest component of the entire immune system, having evolved to provide protection at the main sites of infectious threat: the mucosae. As SARS-CoV-2 initially infects the upper respiratory tract, its first interactions with the immune system must occu…

Thanks.

> There are new Covid vaccines in development which provide sterilizing immunity...

How far along are those and how long before they hit the shelf? I am guessing these can be self-administered?

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#44

Post by TylerE »

blamestross wrote: post #30
oxymoran wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is nobody recommending a highly saline nasal irrigation as a prophylactic? Or even a lower saline nasal irrigation with a very diluted amount of hydrogen peroxide???

You need to have well sterilized water for that just not to lead to a sinus infection which will leave you more susceptible. Tapwater isn't good enough, and is going to be rather harsh out of most taps in the US. Clean water in general isn't a solved problem. If you decide to do this with tap water, leave it out for a day or so to let the chlorine evaporate and then boil it for at least 5 minutes. Netti pots are also…

Distilled water is available at any grocery store for less than a dollar a gallon.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#45

Post by velcii »

exogeny wrote: post #40
velcii wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because Trump suggested something similar...

Yeah, poor guy. He earned so much credibility with his no-nonsense, straight-shooting communication style full of poignant truths that it’s such a mystery why no one took him seriously on a subject in which he was so clearly well-versed and knowledgeable!

Yea, he was so "not credible" that for anything he said, the opposite has to be the "real" truth. /s

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#46

Post by adrianN »

drno123 wrote: post #42
walterbell wrote: post #25

Vaccines delivered to the arm deltoid muscle never promised mucosal immunity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7733922/ > The mucosal immune system is the largest component of the entire immune system, having evolved to provide protection at the main sites of infectious threat: the mucosae. As SARS-CoV-2 initially infects the upper respiratory tract, its first interactions with the immune system must occu…

Thank you for the clear explanation. Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for example, shopping malls and no need to wear a mask indoors. Does this mean that Covid passports actually help spread Covid from vaccinated to non-vaccinated people who mix together without masks?

It looks like infected vaccinated people can transmit the disease just as much as unvaccinated people, so yes.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#47

Post by Tepix »

drno123 wrote: post #42
walterbell wrote: post #25

Vaccines delivered to the arm deltoid muscle never promised mucosal immunity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7733922/ > The mucosal immune system is the largest component of the entire immune system, having evolved to provide protection at the main sites of infectious threat: the mucosae. As SARS-CoV-2 initially infects the upper respiratory tract, its first interactions with the immune system must occu…

Thank you for the clear explanation. Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for example, shopping malls and no need to wear a mask indoors. Does this mean that Covid passports actually help spread Covid from vaccinated to non-vaccinated people who mix together without masks?

Luckily in Germany masks are still mandatory indoors. Also Istael has reinstated the indoor mask requirement after the number of infections increased dramatically even with many vaccinated people

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#48

Post by adrianN »

oxymoran wrote: post #26
mint2 wrote: post #18

This title is editorialized to be misleading. It’s specifically the nose not in general. It does not mean the viral load in the lungs is the same. And studies indicate vaccinated ppl may stay infectious a shorter timespan.

Why is nobody recommending a highly saline nasal irrigation as a prophylactic? Or even a lower saline nasal irrigation with a very diluted amount of hydrogen peroxide???

Early in the pandemic some people recommended gargling with antiseptic solutions. From what I've heard that is generally not a good idea because it kills the natural bacterial flora too and that plays a role in the defense against infections.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#49

Post by meheleventyone »

vsef wrote: post #11
InvertedRhodium wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, I thought the general consensus is that the current vaccines reduce the severity of the infection but provide little defense against contacting and spreading it? At least, this has been used to explain why infection rates are still increasing even among vaccinated populations.

No, the consensus is that they reduce severity but also protect against contracting, just at lower efficacy rate than against earlier variants. They still reduce cases versus not having them.

You can see this happening here in Iceland where we’re going through a surge in cases thanks to Delta but almost the entire adult population is vaccinated:

https://www.ruv.is/frett/2021/08/12/janssen-group-most-at-ri...

https://www.ruv.is/frett/2021/08/12/people-told-vaccinate-to...

> “Diagnosis of infection is three-times more likely in the non-vaccinated than the vaccinated, the likelihood of hospital admission is some four-times higher, and the frequency of intensive care is five times more common in the non-vaccinated than the vaccinated. So, we are seeing that vaccination is protecting against infection and especially against serious illness, which should be a spur to everyone to get vaccinated who has not been vaccinated so far,” Þórólfur said.

Anecdotally having had COVID before isn’t necessarily protection either. I’ve a relative who has now had both one of the original strains and the Delta variant.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#50

Post by otherme123 »

kaczordon wrote: post #17
mattkrause wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're certainly less effective vs variants, but I haven't seen any convincing data suggesting that vaccines are totally ineffective against them. In fact, the article also quotes one of the authors as saying: "The bottom line is, this can happen — it can be true that vaccinated people can spread the virus. But we do not yet know what their relative role in overall community spread is."

Looks like against delta the vaccines could have as low as 39% efficacy against preventing symptomatic COVID. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-v...

We keep using percentages as if they had a true meaning. All the values that keep flying around cannot be compared, as they all measure slightly different things.

That 39% number (protection against symptoms) wasn't checked at the trials, or at least wasn't reported. In that same article, they state that protection against being hospitalized/ICUed is still around 90%, which are the same values we heard before. Guess that doesn't sell clicks.

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