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Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

celinehh.com

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Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#21

Post by ceejayoz »

forgingahead wrote: post #14
ceejayoz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK's libel laws are bad, and thankfully don't apply outside their borders. For an example of why, it took multiple years, millions of dollars, and a 349 page judicial decision to uphold calling someone a holocaust denier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd

What? If someone published a blog post titled "ceejayoz is a ", you would be well within your rights to sue for libel if the claim was not true. There is nothing "bad" about that law, it's the best way to defend yourself against sensationalism and fake news.

In the US, there is an assumption of innocence; the person asserting libel must prove it.

In the UK, the burden of proof is switched; the accused must prove their statement was truthful, which means an expensive legal battle. If you're a well-off asshole, you can leverage this in very nasty ways.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#22

Post by encryptluks2 »

iandanforth wrote: post #15

It always feels a bit forced but I believe it's important to label accusations as accusations. Newspapers report these events as "so and so is accused of such and such." They do so out of an abundance of caution, to not be liable for slander and libel, and to prevent their organization from being used as a mouthpiece for malicious actors. While it does not conform to existing policy here as I understand it I would ad…

This is the title of a personal article. It may be an accusation, but if the victim is writing it they don't see the need to state that. That would be like a cop arresting you for being the attacker and you saying... You can't arrest me cause it is merely an accusation at this point. Yeah that isn't how Rs work.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#23

Post by Forbo »

Shmebulock wrote: post #3

De Grey has always seemed overly eccentric to me. But maybe that is to be expected of someone that works on something as contrarian as anti-aging research. Sexual harassment is not okay. To give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it was some kind of lack of social skill on De Greys side rather than actual sexual predatoriness? Am curious what that legal investigation will find out

> To give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it was some kind of lack of social skill on De Greys side rather than actual sexual predatoriness?

I really take issue with this defense. Just because someone has NPD for example, doesn't mean that they are free of the consequences of their shitty behavior toward others. Why should autism (or any other socially inhibiting condition) be given special treatment over other disorders?

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#24

Post by dragonwriter »

fsiefken wrote: post #2

his response here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=6528005127224941... Daria Khaltourina defends him here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1022657680107226...

In his response, de Grey writes (bizarrely): “They do not write that a single woman has come to them with a ‘me too’ story. [...] Again: as to me, no other accusers, none, zero.”

What Halioua actually writes: “SENS is aware of all of this. The Board was brought testimonies from other women in the beginning of 2021. These testimonies include physical sexual abuse. SENS did not act.” (emphasis on original)

What Deming writes: “In the past few months, in part through conversations with Celine Halioua (who interned at SENS), I’ve learned it’s a serial pattern he’s enacted with women over whom he’s in a position of power.”

He’s, at best, making an intense misleading characterization of both of their claims on an easily verifiable, tangential point.

As for Khaltourina’s defense, well, in every case of serial sexual harassment that becomes public, there's always at least one woman saying “he didn't harass me, and what other people are claiming seems out of character”. (Same often with serial killers, too, though people are less likely to even paint that as a “defense”.)

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#25

Post by ceejayoz »

hkt wrote: post #19
ceejayoz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK's libel laws are bad, and thankfully don't apply outside their borders. For an example of why, it took multiple years, millions of dollars, and a 349 page judicial decision to uphold calling someone a holocaust denier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd

No doubt they're bad. But the case appears to involve multiple people in the UK.

One of the claims in the parent comment was "HN repeating it is also a probable libel", which... no.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#26

Post by dragonwriter »

hkt wrote: post #7

Fun fact: in the UK the title of this post is a probable libel. HN repeating it is also a probable libel. Maybe the word "allegedly" should go in there? Just a thought. Edit: OK, some people clearly didn't like the tone I struck, so I'll be much clearer and make no attempt at humour. The subjects of this case are all in the UK. If the allegations can't be proven to be true on the balance of probabilities, and a case…

> Fun fact: in the UK the title of this post is a probable libel

Even in the UK, true allegations aren't libel, though in the UK I believe truth is a defense rather than falsity being an element of the prima facie case.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#27

Post by [deleted] »

Forbo wrote: post #23
Shmebulock wrote: post #3

De Grey has always seemed overly eccentric to me. But maybe that is to be expected of someone that works on something as contrarian as anti-aging research. Sexual harassment is not okay. To give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it was some kind of lack of social skill on De Greys side rather than actual sexual predatoriness? Am curious what that legal investigation will find out

> To give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it was some kind of lack of social skill on De Greys side rather than actual sexual predatoriness? I really take issue with this defense. Just because someone has NPD for example, doesn't mean that they are free of the consequences of their shitty behavior toward others. Why should autism (or any other socially inhibiting condition) be given special treatment over other…

[deleted]

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#28

Post by donarb »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #12

What is he admitting to with a 17 year old and why does he work so hard to gaslight everyone, even saying... Everyone she knows won't believe that she was drunk. For God's sake, if someone accuses you keep it short and simple... "I didn't do it and if you have further questions talk to my lawyer" Don't write a gaslighting novel about how it couldn't have possibly been you, all it does is make you look more guilty

Read it again. He doesn't claim she was drunk. He says that she herself implies she was drunk when he said certain things he says he did not say. He further states that people that know her know she doesn't drink that much.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#29

Post by freyr »

ceejayoz wrote: post #11
fsiefken wrote: post #2

his response here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=6528005127224941... Daria Khaltourina defends him here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1022657680107226...

> No one who has met Celine would believe that she would ever lose control of how much she drinks... This sort of thing is why you don't write your own "I've been accused of something bad" defense post. Yikes.

He’s saying that she usually drinks in moderation, isn’t he? Doesn’t seem like a “yikes” statement, unless I’m reading it incorrectly.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#30

Post by analognoise »

freyr wrote: post #29
ceejayoz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one who has met Celine would believe that she would ever lose control of how much she drinks... This sort of thing is why you don't write your own "I've been accused of something bad" defense post. Yikes.

He’s saying that she usually drinks in moderation, isn’t he? Doesn’t seem like a “yikes” statement, unless I’m reading it incorrectly.

Yeah, he's saying she's too serious of a person to get drunk, that didn't strike me at all; that's easily corroborated by people that know her.
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