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Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

celinehh.com

11–20 of 35 posts

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#11
post #2

his response here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=6528005127224941... Daria Khaltourina defends him here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1022657680107226...

> No one who has met Celine would believe that she would ever lose control of how much she drinks...

This sort of thing is why you don't write your own "I've been accused of something bad" defense post. Yikes.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#12
What is he admitting to with a 17 year old and why does he work so hard to gaslight everyone, even saying... Everyone she knows won't believe that she was drunk.

For God's sake, if someone accuses you keep it short and simple...

"I didn't do it and if you have further questions talk to my lawyer"

Don't write a gaslighting novel about how it couldn't have possibly been you, all it does is make you look more guilty

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#13
Laura Deming's post (https://ldeming.posthaven.com/aubrey) has some comments that paint this as a coordinated attack on De Grey for financial objectives.

Truth be told I find it hard to believe those allegations, but I'd lie if I said I didn't enjoy the soap opera aspect of it all while reading them. I think it's very impressive and indicative of how hard-ass Deming must be that she did not have those comments deleted. It definitely speaks in her favor that she's letting the debate be open fully, even on her own site.

(Note for context: I'm just a rando on the internet who read some blog posts. I did not know who these people were until this stuff made it to HN)

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#14
post #9
post #7

Fun fact: in the UK the title of this post is a probable libel. HN repeating it is also a probable libel. Maybe the word "allegedly" should go in there? Just a thought. Edit: OK, some people clearly didn't like the tone I struck, so I'll be much clearer and make no attempt at humour. The subjects of this case are all in the UK. If the allegations can't be proven to be true on the balance of probabilities, and a case…

The UK's libel laws are bad, and thankfully don't apply outside their borders. For an example of why, it took multiple years, millions of dollars, and a 349 page judicial decision to uphold calling someone a holocaust denier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd

What? If someone published a blog post titled "ceejayoz is a ", you would be well within your rights to sue for libel if the claim was not true. There is nothing "bad" about that law, it's the best way to defend yourself against sensationalism and fake news.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#15
It always feels a bit forced but I believe it's important to label accusations as accusations. Newspapers report these events as "so and so is accused of such and such." They do so out of an abundance of caution, to not be liable for slander and libel, and to prevent their organization from being used as a mouthpiece for malicious actors.

While it does not conform to existing policy here as I understand it I would advocate for modifying this title to reflect that this is an accusation.

Given the content of this accusation I also want to advocate that readers believe the victims. Even if you're disinclined to believe, I hope it can be recognized that the historical precedent was to disbelieve and that might be a personally addressable root cause for our failure to make more progress on these matters.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#16
post #6
post #2

his response here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=6528005127224941... Daria Khaltourina defends him here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1022657680107226...

Can anyone copy and paste this?

Aubrey de Grey: "I have, in the past few hours, been made aware of blog posts by Laura Deming and Celine Halioua that make extremely serious accusations against both me and SENS Research Foundation. Unsurprisingly, I deny these allegations. What may be more surprising to you is this: my belief is that both Laura and Celine have been deceived into the view that I have done many things that I have in fact not done. Nonetheless, since they have chosen to go public, I am left with no choice but to do the same. In order to orient you, let me point you to what Celine and Laura do not write. They do not write that a single woman has come to them with a me-too story, and they also describe their own personal experiences in decidedly incomplete terms. Laura references an email I wrote - inadvisedly, for sure, and which I unreservedly regret - to her when she was 17, but she explicitly states that "I wrote it off as a mistake" and that she only resurfaced it in the past few months at the instigation of others. Celine references a dinner where she and I sat together, and accuses me of saying certain things that I utterly deny ever saying and that she implies I said when she was drunk. No one who has met Celine would believe that she would ever lose control of how much she drinks, and most of her accusations concerning that dinner appear to be of other people, not of me. It is instructive that the very next day she wrote to me without the faintest hint of ambivalence, asking for additional feedback on her presentation, and that every one of our exchanges, of which the most recent was less than a year ago, has been of similarly untarnished character. (Also, I want to make clear that I was not aware until today of Celine's prior accusations against another person associated with SRF.) Again: as to me, no other accusers. Zero. No iceberg of which Celine is claiming to be the tip. I'm putting it out there right now: if other accusers come forward with supporting evidence, I will step aside a great deal faster than Cuomo just did. But if they don't... who's the real culprit here? Hint: in my ever-so-personal view, it's not Celine or Laura. The unequivocally clear conclusion that I draw from the above is that they have been set up. Celine has, only this year, been given - in my opinion - to believe that I did things at a 2018 dinner which had incongruously little influence on her email to me the next day. Laura, in turn, has - in my opinion - been given to believe that my one (albeit, I again admit and regret, ill-advised) email to her nine years ago was an example of a pattern, which it is not. The only basis of implausibility for this scenario is: who would have done this to them, and thence to me, and why? I have been vigorously advised to keep my counsel on that question for another day or two... but, as they say, watch this space. I can assure you that I will not allow this matter to end with the court of public opinion viewing the guilt as lying either with me or with Celine/Laura while the actual guilty parties laugh all the way to the bank thinking that only we will suffer."

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#17

De Grey has always seemed overly eccentric to me. But maybe that is to be expected of someone that works on something as contrarian as anti-aging research. Sexual harassment is not okay. To give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it was some kind of lack of social skill on De Greys side rather than actual sexual predatoriness? Am curious what that legal investigation will find out

> To give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it was some kind of lack of social skill on De Greys side rather than actual sexual predatoriness? Am curious what that legal investigation will find out

This isn’t the benefit of the doubt. You don’t get a pass on bad behavior by reason of actual mental illness. If in the grips of psychosis you slander or assault someone you did a bad thing. You do not get off because you have BPD or are schizophrenic or whatever. There are consequences. And even if de Grey is autistic as fuck he’s intelligent enough to emulate allistic people’s basic social sense and something approaching consensus morality. If I can do it he can.

This is not a commentary or prejudgment on whether he did or did not do anything. It could be a giant nothingburger like with rms. He could be a monster. Wait and find out.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#18
post #7

Fun fact: in the UK the title of this post is a probable libel. HN repeating it is also a probable libel. Maybe the word "allegedly" should go in there? Just a thought. Edit: OK, some people clearly didn't like the tone I struck, so I'll be much clearer and make no attempt at humour. The subjects of this case are all in the UK. If the allegations can't be proven to be true on the balance of probabilities, and a case…

Ycombinator is not in the UK.

The parties to this exchange are all subject to UK law, as I understand it. The title here has legal implications for them if that's the case: the reach of a libel is factored into damages calculations. That means this post is likely to cause someone a real headache if the title is not changed.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#19
post #9
post #7

Fun fact: in the UK the title of this post is a probable libel. HN repeating it is also a probable libel. Maybe the word "allegedly" should go in there? Just a thought. Edit: OK, some people clearly didn't like the tone I struck, so I'll be much clearer and make no attempt at humour. The subjects of this case are all in the UK. If the allegations can't be proven to be true on the balance of probabilities, and a case…

The UK's libel laws are bad, and thankfully don't apply outside their borders. For an example of why, it took multiple years, millions of dollars, and a 349 page judicial decision to uphold calling someone a holocaust denier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd

No doubt they're bad. But the case appears to involve multiple people in the UK.

Re: Allegations against Aubrey de Grey

#20

De Grey has always seemed overly eccentric to me. But maybe that is to be expected of someone that works on something as contrarian as anti-aging research. Sexual harassment is not okay. To give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it was some kind of lack of social skill on De Greys side rather than actual sexual predatoriness? Am curious what that legal investigation will find out

Conflating lack of social skills with evidence of sexual predation does seem like a very effective attack vector against many of the best academics in the world. I'm inclined to reserve judgement until the facts are in, I don't know any of the players even as celebrities I follow.
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