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On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

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Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#81

AirBNB has a huge asymmetric trust problem. The hosts have real physical addresses and need to be able to take a payment. Hosts can easily be held accountable. The guests on the other hand could be anyone. The company's attitude seems to be that allowing the host to interview the guest over email is sufficient to vet the guest. That's absurd. I don't have any special ability to identify a con artist vs. an honest per…

It really gets on my nerves when I see cases like this and the responses that follow. As you have pointed out, you have no special skills to be able to recognise con artists or criminals. As this is the case with most people, how would having further private information on the guest help you to make a different judgement.

Unless we start talking criminal background checks, you are no safer than before. If anything it gives a false sense of security, which might make you less likely pursue further avenues of safeguarding. Of course criminal background checks are a completely stupid idea. I'm sure many good natured people would be hesitant to put this level of info in the hands of someone they don't know.

The truth is though even criminals can get credit cards, debit cards and any other method of verification you can think of. So that info doesn't really help. Worse still they can use fraudulent information just as easily. What do you do now? You also have to remember those opportunistic types, you know the person who has never really done anything wrong, but for whatever reason at that moment they are compelled to break the law or behave in a manner they normally wouldn't.

In a society that is mostly good, we have the police the courts, the law and prisons, to deal with bad people. You can not really on airbnb to provide you with a definitive solution to this problem, if they did then they should be running the country. Nor should you expect them to put systems in place that violate the rights of the majority, or systems that provide a false sense of security. The best they can ever do is provide you with support and advice on preventative measures.

Your safety should still be your top concern. You should not be relying on another to provide it for you.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#82
post #4

There continues to be a major point of conflict between EJ's concerns and AirBnB's position. In fact, the point of conflict is actually within AirBnB's safety policies itself: 1 - Private messaging that lets users learn about each other prior to booking, without revealing private information 2 - Reservation system that allows hosts to accept or decline guests, giving them complete control over who books their space I…

I don't get it though. I made a reservation through AirBNB, and while you can't explicitly exchange emails or phone numbers, there are many, MANY ways by which this can be circumvented ("I am .n at the Googol's email service", or "you can check me out as 'shr1k' on Twittr")

Since I was the potential tenant, I went out of my way to ensure that the landlord could check me out in whatever manner possible before coming to a conclusion one way or another. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume the landlord would want this too?

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#84
post #38

I can't stop thinking that this was a top-secret hit job by some shady character working for the hotel industry looking to derail AirBnB's next fund-raising round. Heck, if Nixon could do it, why couldn't The American Hotel & Lodging Association? So my question to you is: am I quite paranoid or merely rather paranoid?

Well, afaik you travel a lot. Why don't YOU rent out your place via Airbnb?

(nothing personal, but I know I would not rent my apartment just to earn a few $$$)

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#85
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"She literally left a key for a total stranger to her home, without doing ANY due-diligence. Someone basically sent her an email, and she said "okey-dokey, here's the keys, have fun."" I don't use Airbnb from either side, but isn't the big problem here that you can't do due dilligence? As I understand it (and again, as a non-user maybe I am wrong), Airbnb pretty much blocks you from knowing too much about your tempor…

I agree with you. I recently took a weekend vacation by the beach and did my very best to use AirBnB. The fact that email is the only way to communicate with the host made it really difficult for me to get a good feel for the place I was renting. I want to use AirBnB, I really do. But preventing me from typing my phone# in the text field really annoyed me. I don't think that renting a place is like buying an item on…

A possible solution would be if AirBnB required hosts and guests to be friends on Facebook before a transaction could take place..this wouldn't prevent anyone from making a fake profile in order to seem more trustworthy, but this is an area where Facebook's privacy situation would be helpful. You can learn a lot about a person's character by examining his or her Facebook page.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#86
First, I do not believe this is the place to make a stand about our trust in humanity. I believe that is best left to philosopher who has all of human discourse to use.

My argument rests on the fact that Airbnb is moving closer to the average. Airbnb is moving closer to the average in the sense that they are attracting more people. After several million bookings, the general booking population will look more like the average in terms of disabilities, crime, unemployment, and many other imaginable statistics. Airbnb may not be quite there, but they are certainly growing closer.

The question becomes, how to improve trust as Airbnb moves closer to the average?

One such way is to implement trust systems. One such way is their existing feedback systems for people who use Airbnb. Hosts and renters alike can rate each other across several factors. Over time, one can develop a reputation that is accepted as a "I will do no evil". Heck, Airbnb could even reward these people with lower booking rates / larger cut as host.

Trust systems are fine for those who have earned trust within the system. How does one bootstrap trust in an increasing paranoid system? There is a cost associated with this in the sense of gaining references or examining the social network of a first time renter. After such examination the responsibility relies upon some host to have an increasingly long conversation with a first time renter. This can be done before or after booking. However at the end of the conversation, one ultimately relies on their own judgement, which means the conversation can be gamed.

In a future, Airbnb could work with outside systems. Airbnb could work with criminal databases, social information, along with associated other signals. All these approaches hint at a big brother approach where Airbnb is the ultimate judge and jury on who can host and/or rent. I don't see Airbnb being very popular in this approach.

In the end, I think Airbnb has the responsibility to make things right in this situation. In the future I think they have the responsibility to make things right while their business model relies on the trust of their customers. Increase awareness and increase their own detection measures to the extent that they do not become big brother.

Ultimately, I think things like this will continue to happen. However, the success (or failure) of the Airbnb billion+ business will depend on their response to such future events. Continue to make the host (the supply) happy and Airbnb will do well.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#87
post #38

I can't stop thinking that this was a top-secret hit job by some shady character working for the hotel industry looking to derail AirBnB's next fund-raising round. Heck, if Nixon could do it, why couldn't The American Hotel & Lodging Association? So my question to you is: am I quite paranoid or merely rather paranoid?

[deleted]

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#88
I once rented out my apartment privately and it turned out to be a major mistake. I had just come home from surfing the Caribbeans and was sitting on a train going home from the airport when I got a job offer that would entail me moving halfway across the world.

I took the job and was basically on a plane in a week or two. I decided to save time by renting my apartment out fully furnished. My mom met some dude she thought looked OK and we rented it out to this guy. Turns out this was one shady guy. First month comes around, no rent. I call the guy and he comes up with an excuse, not wanting to really deal with this at the time I bought the excuse and was expecting two rents the next month. Next month comes along and no rent again so I get my friend to go into the apartment and he opens the door only to find basically everything I owned stolen.

After calming down I found the guy on facebook and then reported him to the police, they couldnt do much seing as the guys excuse was that he had left the apartment and dropped the key into the mailbox so someone else must have fished it up and opened the door and stole everything.

tl;dr I rented out my apartment and got everything I own stolen and the police didnt manage to do anything.

What did I learn from this? ALWAYS get a deposit. 2-3 months rent up front. Have insurance, have friends that are able to go check up on the place from time to time. And dont leave anything valuable in the apt when renting it out.

And this is why I will never ever use a service such as Airbnb, no control.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#89
post #77
post #38

I can't stop thinking that this was a top-secret hit job by some shady character working for the hotel industry looking to derail AirBnB's next fund-raising round. Heck, if Nixon could do it, why couldn't The American Hotel & Lodging Association? So my question to you is: am I quite paranoid or merely rather paranoid?

I thought the same but it does not matter wether this is a setup or not. What matters is that it could happen. airbnb can't do the same: sending somebody in a Hotel and destroy the room? That would prove nothing. Hotels/dedicated accommodations are run by professionals and the business model is sound. Airbnb is maybe too ahead of its time and will work greatly when our online identities are more "stable" if you see w…

by finding a good tenant by asking your friends on Facebook might be a good idea - some form of social vouching would really help (even if it's friend-of-friend-of-friend).

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#90
If you're going to rent out a fully furnished apartment full of valuables to strangers who you can't vet beforehand the insurance costs will be significant.

I have a feeling AirBnB don't offer insurance because the premiums required (and the cost passed on to hosts) would make the entire thing unprofitable.

Hotels have insurance but it is probably much much lower than what AirBnB could provide to hosts because hotels already have a) security infrastructure in place b) your credit card details and c) your agreement to be held liable for damages.

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