Thunderbird 91.0 • Hacker News Board

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#221

Post by ajsnigrutin » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

gnu8 wrote: post #183

endofreach wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean honestly, this is typical US stuff. As a european I have never associated blacklist, whitelist or master with any discrimination. Why instead of changing tech wording affecting every dev worldwide who does not care about american pseudo social justice, just do not call dark er skin „black“ and brighter skin „white“? I mean still more people are afraid in the absence of light, hence the dark, than otherwise. An…

I’m glad you don’t have these problems in your European utopia. We still have a lot to work on here - there are race riots every year. Part of our legacy as a very young country that was built with the labor of imported black slaves. Other connotations of the word blacklist include the blacklisting of labor activists and of accused communists during our multiple bouts of anti communist hysteria. The word is charged w…

Many countries were built with the labour of slaves. I'm a slav, from a slavic country, and the words "slav" and "slave" are not just coincintally similar. We were also a communist country, and the definition of 3rd world (and technically leaders of the 3rd world/nonaligned at the time).

Somehow we have no issues with master/slave. Most people (except failed students and former party members) know communism was a really really shitty system. And most of the current racial issues are imported from america, during the democrats-vs-trump "battles", and are so americanized, that people forget minorities here (gypsies,...), and use BLM for maybe 10 black people that live here.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#222

Post by jcranmer » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

forgotpwd16 wrote: post #126

Does Thunderbird share code with Firefox?

Thunderbird and Firefox both use the same internal rendering engine (Gecko) and several shared components (Toolkit). In a source checkout, all the code in comm/ is specific to Thunderbird (/ SeaMonkey), and all the code in browser/ is specific to Firefox, and almost everything else is shared betwixt the two.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#223

Post by allendoerfer » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

gnu8 wrote: post #183

endofreach wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean honestly, this is typical US stuff. As a european I have never associated blacklist, whitelist or master with any discrimination. Why instead of changing tech wording affecting every dev worldwide who does not care about american pseudo social justice, just do not call dark er skin „black“ and brighter skin „white“? I mean still more people are afraid in the absence of light, hence the dark, than otherwise. An…

I’m glad you don’t have these problems in your European utopia. We still have a lot to work on here - there are race riots every year. Part of our legacy as a very young country that was built with the labor of imported black slaves. Other connotations of the word blacklist include the blacklisting of labor activists and of accused communists during our multiple bouts of anti communist hysteria. The word is charged w…

Last time I checked, your race riots were not caused by software, but by gun violence of untrained police officers. I think it is quite clear, what needs to be banned in the US.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#224

Post by jandem » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

cpach wrote: post #70

I’ve given up on desktop e-mail clients. IMHO there’s currently no UI on the market that beats the Gmail UI.

I think part of this is just time to get used to something new? You might notice some improvements too, for instance only after I started using Fastmail I realized the Gmail UI can be pretty slow and heavyweight although I never noticed this before.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#225

Post by ajsnigrutin » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

542458 wrote: post #166

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the word "master" predates american slavery (apparently the only slavery people care about) blacklist predates black people being enslaved in America. It's PC war on words that distorted their original meaning.

The word fa***t predates it’s use as a slur for homosexuals, but I don’t think anybody reasonable would argue that it’s not commonly perceived as an offensive term. These are obviously different degrees of subjective “offensiveness”, but my point is that people don’t sit down and work out the etymology before deciding if something makes them feel bad.

Snowflake is an insulting term for overly sensitive SJWs... but it's also a word for an actual snowflake. No matter how offensive it is to someone, we still need a word for literal snowflakes falling from the clouds.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#226

Post by ajsnigrutin » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

The_Colonel wrote: post #161

jtsuken wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, on that note some Slavic countries might request their naming and history be changed to something delinked from slavery... Shall we rename Slovenia and Slovakia, too?

The root of the names Slovakia (Slovensko) and Slovenia (Slovenija) trace back to "slovo", literally "word" (denoting people who speak the same language).

Yugoslavia is based on souther slavs (juzni slaveni), so slavs.

Source: born there

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#227

Post by el_oni » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

skytreader wrote: post #187

el_oni wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while this might be true, the fact that there are master-slave analogies elsewhere makes other uses of master in CS suspect. if the analogy had been "master-apprentice" instead there probably wouldnt be as much pushback everywhere else. while this particular instance might be an over correction, i think the overall trend has been a move in the right direction

> if the analogy had been "master-apprentice" instead there probably wouldnt be as much pushback everywhere else Except, you know, apprentices eventually become masters themselves. And the space isn't zero-sum; "Master Verrochio taught Master Leonardo" is semantically valid. It doesn't illustrate the semantics of, say, data replication where there is only one master at a time and the slaves are not supposed to be pro…

>only one master at a time and the slaves are not meant to be promoted.

So not like a historical master-slave relationship.

Master-slave may capture the relationship, but humans still have to read, write and interact with those systems.

Some of those humans still suffer from the legacy of slavery, jim crow and voter suppression.

We can come up with analogies and metaphors which arent so evocative and make working with systems more pleasant just on account of not flippantly referencing the darkest part of societies history.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#228

Post by ajsnigrutin » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

mdp2021 wrote: post #72

jtsuken wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, on that note some Slavic countries might request their naming and history be changed to something delinked from slavery... Shall we rename Slovenia and Slovakia, too?

Exactly. I am always shocked about some terms becoming a matter of sensation, yet those people condemning them oftentimes use the term 'slave' in their expression, instead of, say, the original 'servant'. And following their "feeling", there should be very few terms more offensive than 'slave' (it means that the default servant is a Slav).

And it's never the slavs being offended, but always middle-class white americans.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#229

Post by handrous » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

bschne wrote: post #58

s3tz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, but at least make it consistent then. GitHub uses "main" and now this uses "primary", next someone will use "base" and I'm not sure at all how this is better in any way.

That's hardly in the hands of any one developer to make consistent, and it was hardly entirely consistent before. As long as it makes sense in the context of a given project...

In the context of a master password, it doesn't make sense to change it. It's analogous (closely, but not perfectly) to "master key", a term which non-nerds may be familiar with from the world of physical keys (and which term, in that context, isn't going anywhere, in part because, as with this one, there's no reason whatsoever for it to) so gave normal folks a better handle on what it means and how to use the software.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#230

Post by nekasrbenda » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #221

gnu8 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m glad you don’t have these problems in your European utopia. We still have a lot to work on here - there are race riots every year. Part of our legacy as a very young country that was built with the labor of imported black slaves. Other connotations of the word blacklist include the blacklisting of labor activists and of accused communists during our multiple bouts of anti communist hysteria. The word is charged w…

Many countries were built with the labour of slaves. I'm a slav, from a slavic country, and the words "slav" and "slave" are not just coincintally similar. We were also a communist country, and the definition of 3rd world (and technically leaders of the 3rd world/nonaligned at the time). Somehow we have no issues with master/slave. Most people (except failed students and former party members) know communism was a rea…

I'd argue that we still carry scars from the Ottoman rule, even though it ended 2 centuries ago.

There are living people in USA who were around for the segregation.