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For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

economist.com

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Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#241

Post by whitepaint »

grawprog wrote: post #72

I dunno, for a group of people who seem to believe you're worth a ridiculous amount of money per hour, think of what your time is worth. You folks that make a living programming off exceedingly decent wages. You don't break your bodies every day, you're not forced to spend all day moving wood and metal, filling bags full of garbage, hauling shit that weighs 50+ lbs all day every day. You just gotta sit and think and…

> for a group of people who seem to believe you're worth a ridiculous amount of money per hour

> I have to say about computer programmers and their entitlement

> you're already overpaid for shit that's not going to kill you

Why overpaid? Programmers create huge amount of value and they are paid accordingly.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#242

Post by nextlevelwizard »

peakaboo wrote: post #150
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #133

I can't wait to get back to the office. I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) It also helps wit…

> I can't wait to get back to the office. > I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) > It also hel…

I could pick part your routine/things as well, but that would be as silly as what you did. Your routine works for you, you can keep it. My routine suites me and I am going to keep it. I see no actual argument here.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#243

Post by higeorge13 »

genezeta wrote: post #225

I'm doing interviews now and, naturally, the question comes up. Am I looking for a remote position? Would I mind that the position is only partially so? Or that it is fully on-site? Obviously it's just anecdotal data , and I'm in Europe. So take this with a grain of salt, but I'd say: * There has undoubtedly been a big rise in remote positions, but not a huge one. Many of these seem to come from companies willing to…

I am from Europe as well, and did similar searching a few months back. These are not remote jobs. If you are looking for such, you should change your job filter or check websites offering strictly such jobs. Then there is another obstacle: timezone. There are a few remote-only jobs which require you to be on the same country or a couple timezones away (e.g. US-only). Then you need to adapt your scope to your preferred region.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#244

Post by dang »

dheera wrote: post #125
mojuba wrote: post #56

Didn't read the article - no access, just some thoughts: the downward pressure on wages will probably become a norm for WFH. Google has already set a precedent. However, unless it takes another unexpected turn, WFH is win-win-win: companies can save on office space and a bit on reduced salaries too; employees will have a healthier life and the freedom to live in cheaper locations; and finally WFH is good for the envi…

> Didn't read the article - no access https://outline.com/8pMDCv Maybe HN should start banning paywall links. It greatly degrades the experience of HN if you can't access half the stuff on the front page by just clicking on it.

This has been settled for years. If there's a workaround, it's ok. Users usually post workarounds in the thread.

This is in the FAQ at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html and there's tons of explanation here:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#246

Post by [deleted] »

goldenkey wrote: post #220
birdyrooster wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the weed, it makes it hard to hold it all together Edit: okay fine the stoners just want to stay WFH and blaze up during the day

Plenty of folks work long and difficult jobs while on Cannabis. Before it started giving me anxiety, I programmed on it for years. It made hard tasks more exploratory and fun. OP just sounds like a lazy manlet, not drug-induced malaise.

[deleted]

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#247

Post by nextlevelwizard »

angarg12 wrote: post #191
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #133

I can't wait to get back to the office. I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) It also helps wit…

You've tried remote and it doesn't work for you. Great, more power to you! However your comment about other people is out of place. Is other people taking longer breaks affecting your productivity? If so, have you brought this up to them? Otherwise it shouldn't matter to you. Personally I find remote a bliss, and I'm one of those. Almost every day I take 1 or 1:30 hours to cook some homemade meal and eat with my wife…

>but actually I end up doing overtime many days

I am not american, so working overtime for no reason is not the norm. In fact most of the team are contractors who can not work overtime even if they wanted to.

You shouldn't take my post as personal attack

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#248

Post by velcii »

Cookingboy wrote: post #203
velcii wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>then companies will lower comp for those jobs and start giving them less sexy/boring/keep the lights on type of work I was under the impression that comps have the practice of giving work to people that might produce good results with that kind of work, and trust me, people who might produce good results will want the freedom WFH makes possible. But on the other hand, people who have to depend on politics and ass ki…

>I was under the impression that comps have the practice of giving work to people that might produce good results with that kind of work, and trust me, people who might produce good results will want the freedom WFH makes possible. Just because companies were only giving WFH opportunity to high performers doesn't mean all high performers prefer WFH opportunities. Have you considered the possibility that some people a…

>Even for the best employee who do the most amazing kind of work, being in person and take advantage of politics and "ass kissing" would only help, not hurt.

I find this statement so out of reality. Because often what happens is that this "best employee" gets side tracked by someone who is not actually productive, but just good at playing politics.

So our hypothetical "best employee" will have to play politics in addition to be productive to have a fighting chance. Or they can just downgrade themselves to be less productive and be more political..

Either way, the company losses the actual productivity of the said employee...

>It seems like you are under this very strong impression of people who derive value for in-person work only do so because they are sub-par employees.

I don't think I said that. I said "in-person" work will be essential for the job security of people who survive soley on politics. I don't think the converse, that anyone who wants to work with people is sub-par, is true.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#249

Post by joelbluminator »

Cookingboy wrote: post #62
sillysaurusx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mistaken. Companies need good employees, and particularly skilled developers. If you're a skilled developer, I urge you to exercise your negotiation power. You have much more than you think. The problem is, most people aren't willing to walk from job offers. Walk. There are more.

> and particularly skilled developers. skilled developers are much more common than people think. We get the impression of rarity precisely because we limit the search pool to local areas where very often many top companies are competing for the same talent pool. But at the end of the day there are a ton of super smart developers in EU, China, India, Japan, South America or even lower to mid COL areas in the U.S. who…

There's not much need to outsource as long as companies are swimming in cheap money. For most U.S companies dev money is barely an issue and in Europe they mostly don't earn that much to begin with.

If this bubble bursts then yeah painful changes will likely come.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#250

Post by j7ake »

peakaboo wrote: post #150
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #133

I can't wait to get back to the office. I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) It also helps wit…

> I can't wait to get back to the office. > I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) > It also hel…

Making own food that is the same quality as the hot foods at cafeteria is easily 1 hour a day extra.

Not being around colleagues affects more than just self-discipline, you lose the random encounters with colleagues that often leads to new ideas and collaborations.

These differences are real. And even if productivity is not affected, the new ideas that normally sparked from random interactions are diminished.

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