Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 461 posts

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#121

Post by lnjarroyo »

Cookingboy wrote: post #68
cblconfederate wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you just gave an example why they shouldnt have held that meeting physically

Or rather that demonstrates the absolute value of physical meetings. If all day long Zoom calls and Slack messages could have led to spontaneous discussions/new initiatives like that they already would have, but they didn't, I saw more sparks flying in one afternoon of social event than 3 months of planned video calls. I firmly believe if Silicon Valley goes fully remote, then it will no longer stay the innovation en…

I cant speak for the others, but at my last job, the team got closer when the pandemics started and we went remote. The key was having a virtual "water cooler". We did that with Discord, anyone interested in chatting could just hang in a voice channel and people would casually join in at their own will.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#122

Post by timkam »

acituan wrote: post #105
Cookingboy wrote: post #57

As preferable as WFH is for many and as productive as many people can be while working remote, at the end of the day, you can't change human nature. There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions. So many cool ideas and new…

> There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions. So many cool ideas and new projects were the results of a casual lunch discussion even just random hallway chats When was the last time you've used a big corp product that so…

Agreed. One (anecdotal) observation I've made is that bullshit meetings are harder to bear and to defend when everyone's online because people can protect themselves. It's easier to not join if nobody can approach you physically. It's easier to disengage. IMHO, if the culture is reasonably good, the organization and most of its employees profit from WFH. But if there are serious culture issues, it's probably really hard to recover.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#123

Post by Cookingboy »

acituan wrote: post #105
Cookingboy wrote: post #57

As preferable as WFH is for many and as productive as many people can be while working remote, at the end of the day, you can't change human nature. There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions. So many cool ideas and new…

> There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions. So many cool ideas and new projects were the results of a casual lunch discussion even just random hallway chats When was the last time you've used a big corp product that so…

>They are doubling down on real estate because they have sunken costs,

I'm pretty sure a company like Google that has no problem killing unsuccessful products after multi-billion dollar investments, knows how not to fall for the sunken cost fallacy.

> execs themselves probably have serious personal real estate positions and

As opposed to move to a different state, buy a house 3x the size for the same money, and save 10% on state income tax? Hmm....

>companies have a sizable chunk of h1b-captive employees that has to stick around anyway.

The very fact companies sponsors H1b instead of having them working remotely from China or India is precisely because they believe in the value of everyone physically together.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#124

Post by Accacin »

jmfldn wrote: post #66
mojuba wrote: post #56

Didn't read the article - no access, just some thoughts: the downward pressure on wages will probably become a norm for WFH. Google has already set a precedent. However, unless it takes another unexpected turn, WFH is win-win-win: companies can save on office space and a bit on reduced salaries too; employees will have a healthier life and the freedom to live in cheaper locations; and finally WFH is good for the envi…

Agree on most counts apart from the efficient communication angle. Purely anecdotal but I find that the number of meetings has grown significantly since constant WFH became the norm. In the past, most meetings required a meeting room whereas now, as long as the meeting organiser can see that most people have an open space in their calendar, a meeting can be arranged. Not an insurmountable problem but I find myself pr…

We also noticed this. We have added a rule saying that almost all meetings are optional and there's no pressure to go to them (scrum meetings are not optional i.e. daily, refinement and retro). It's helped a lot and helped managers see which meetings weren't found to be helpful.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#125

Post by dheera »

mojuba wrote: post #56

Didn't read the article - no access, just some thoughts: the downward pressure on wages will probably become a norm for WFH. Google has already set a precedent. However, unless it takes another unexpected turn, WFH is win-win-win: companies can save on office space and a bit on reduced salaries too; employees will have a healthier life and the freedom to live in cheaper locations; and finally WFH is good for the envi…

> Didn't read the article - no access

https://outline.com/8pMDCv

Maybe HN should start banning paywall links. It greatly degrades the experience of HN if you can't access half the stuff on the front page by just clicking on it.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#126

Post by oblio »

basisword wrote: post #117
oblio wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, that's easy. The negotiating power of a company, which is practically a group of people, is much higher than that of employees, which are just 1 person. A big company loses what? 0.00001% of its revenue if it doesn't hire the right person for a specific position? An employee loses 100% of their revenue if they don't get hired or get fired. So companies can pretty much do what they want (up to a point where they c…

This depends highly on where you live. If you live somewhere with at-will employment you have very little power in this situation. If you live somewhere with...basic employment regulations then it's a very different situation.

It's never a fair fight. Even in the most abusive of cases, a company can hire lawyers and a company's revenue is much, much higher than the income an employee makes.

So the company can drag even a lawsuit across many, many years, practically guaranteeing big companies are bullet proof.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#127

Post by cornel_io »

mojuba wrote: post #56

Didn't read the article - no access, just some thoughts: the downward pressure on wages will probably become a norm for WFH. Google has already set a precedent. However, unless it takes another unexpected turn, WFH is win-win-win: companies can save on office space and a bit on reduced salaries too; employees will have a healthier life and the freedom to live in cheaper locations; and finally WFH is good for the envi…

I've seen few unnecessary engineering manager positions, typically if anything companies have too few managers for the number of engineers.

I constantly see those positions filled with people who may be great engineers but are trash managers, though. Companies can still get by, but they often don't even realize how much better they'd be if they prioritized management skill instead of mere years of experience (I'm looking at you, Google, I've never seen such a high percentage of completely clueless people managers anywhere else).

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#128

Post by jstx1 »

phreeza wrote: post #53

The arguments in this comment section have been rehashed so many times on HN now it is becoming hilarious. Who would have thought that office vs remote is the emacs vs vim of the 2020s.

I had my own little but-I-like-the-office rant cached and ready to go as soon as I read the title. Had to stop myself from posting because it really feels like treading water at this point.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#129

Post by Accacin »

phreeza wrote: post #53

The arguments in this comment section have been rehashed so many times on HN now it is becoming hilarious. Who would have thought that office vs remote is the emacs vs vim of the 2020s.

Well it's new for a lot of people. I always wanted to work remotely, and overall I do like it but there are certain things I miss that I didn't think I'd miss.

People have been given a taste of remote working, and now certain companies are trying to get us back into the office. I can see how that'd spark discussion.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#130

Post by celticninja »

mbag wrote: post #69
mojuba wrote: post #56

Didn't read the article - no access, just some thoughts: the downward pressure on wages will probably become a norm for WFH. Google has already set a precedent. However, unless it takes another unexpected turn, WFH is win-win-win: companies can save on office space and a bit on reduced salaries too; employees will have a healthier life and the freedom to live in cheaper locations; and finally WFH is good for the envi…

Another win is for the local economy, where remote workers will spend their money.

But that's really a transfer from the local economy around the office to the local economy around their home.
Post reply on HN